Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

extro is American??? this lack the startlement factor of the infamous "I AM CANADIAN" moment....

but at the time they fought them, starting with Rosa Parks, they were violating laws still considered in effect.

If ever a law deserved to be broken. . . . . . there's a reason that woman is an American heroine you know.

dammit...............must not engage, must not engage, must not engage etc.

ICBINEG- why bring up gender? Gender has no part to play in this issue WHATSOEVER.

And I'm not "homophobic" if it is defined as hating or fearing people because of their homosexual desires or behaviour. But if disagreeing that it's OK to have gay sex based on Scriptural principles is "homophobic" then call me a homophobe. Or rather don't because that is a stupid definition.

Extro, so you have five children - bully for you. I wish you and them every happiness. I have no children, through choice (would love to hear what you think of that by the way). I have never had an abortion (so far) because I have been fortunate enough that I have never needed one.

'Are you seriously telling me I have nothing because I disbelieve in killing the unborn based on my Christian (non-UK law) view of what personhood is and what murder is?'

So what value do you have as a woman if you can be disposed with in order to save a pregnancy? Do you really believe that the rights of an embryo are more important than yours?

What would you have said to my sister when she was 21 years old, 6 weeks pregnant and had been left by the child's 'father', was living in Ireland and was adamant that she did not want to have a baby? Genuine question

stillor do you think extro actually cannot answer the question or simply cannot bring him/herself to write the words on the screen?

La la la ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Anyone want to bet on there being no answer before the thread hits 1000?

If you disagree that it is ok to have gay sex, then yes you are homophobic. HTH.

And is the Jewish/Islamic/Catholic/Non-fundamental-Christian God the same God as your God?

Because tbh, if your God is as critical and lacking in understanding, and as full of vengeance as you are making him out to be, I'm really glad I don't believe in him . I rather like the idea of a gentle, loving, guiding God, who listens to his people, but that isn't yours obviously.

There's a difference between saving and deliberately killing someone. No five-year-old child has to die for a woman who's carrying an unwanted embryo to allow that embryo to live and develop into a fetus and baby.

So that won't work as an abortion justification. I do not believe an embryo's rights matter more than mine, or a foetus' rights for that matter, which is why I have always said that where a woman's life is at risk it must be saved even if this entails removing the pregnancy.

And yes, Rosa Parks is an American hero, and I am a committed anti-racist and anti-BNP activist. Which is why I really dislike being called fascist! My second major political activity behind the pro-family cause is the fight against neo-Nazi idiots and their ideology of hate.

Oh yes and you are homophobic. That is nothing to be proud of by the way.

And, assuming we are talking about consenting adults here, why on earth would you give a flying fig what goes on in other people's sex lives anyway? What do you find so shameful about people (any people) giving and receiving pleasure and having fun together?

tut tut tut Maryz It isn't extros god it is the One True God!

I can't believe you don't get that!

Sure it would be nice if an all seeing omnipotent god would share the heights of human morality (compassion acceptance of difference etc.) but the One True God sadly doesn't. Mankind got unlucky there.

This thread is about Savita Halappanavar.

I know its hard to let someone you disagree with get the last word but can we stop feeding Extro's ego by focussing on her/his posts (I know I've been doing it myself). The moderate majority here don't agree with her/his views on all sorts of things, this isn't the place to thrash them out.

Agreed Grimma.

'No five-year-old child has to die for a woman who's carrying an unwanted embryo to allow that embryo to live and develop into a fetus and baby'

If a baby is 'unwanted', who actually benefits from that baby being born? Why would you want to put a woman through the ordeal of carrying and giving birth to (putting her life at risk) and raising a baby that she does not want to parent? Why would you want a baby to be born into a home where their carers will not or cannot provide the warmth and care that they so desperately need?

The point about having nothing is this; my body is not worth less than anyone else's body. My body has equal rights to other bodies. When the other body is in mine, when it is solely reliant on my body for life, my body still takes priority. If I don't have rights over my own body then someone else is essentially claiming ownership of it (in this case, the State). So what does that make me? What do we call people who are owned by other people? Slaves.

Fuck. That.

extro so if you believe that a woman should not be allowed to die if the abortion will save her life then where is the debate?
Some of our views may go one step further, but that's a separate matter.
Why are we bringing up the civil rights movement and Christianity and all te rest of it?

gosh were there 2? I will answer again then.

I would let any number of embryos die if it meant I could save an actual living human being (man, woman, child)

Thank you CrikeyOHare and others who pulled up CailinDana on her claims of being misrepresented. Fine for someone's position to evolve over the course of an argument - mine certainly did - but denying you said something fairly categorical is pointless when the posts and quotes are there in plain view.

There remain two main arguments, medical and ethical and to ignore one because it is inconvenient to you achieving your goals does an injustice to Savita, her family and every woman in Ireland facing a similar health situation right now.

I hope the law and legislation change in Ireland.
And
I hope the inquest thoroughly exposes the failings in Savita's medical care that directly led to her death.

And when it does, I hope that those proponents of not focussing on the latter because it might distract from the former are prepared to address the fact that there are women, now, facing miscarriages who should be offered termination for the sake of their health who NEED this to be focussed on. For them they cannot wait for the law to change. They need the truth about their medical rights now. We need to shout about it for their sake.

Whether that is inconvenient to you or not.

indeed. extro believes the fetus should have been aborted in this case and so does everyone else.

Anyone who thinks that the Christian god defines marriage as between one woman and one man obviously hasn't read their bible.

But let's not distract from the real tragedy here, i.e. the entirely preventable death of a woman who was sacrificed to religious dogma.

Like I said again on the US election thread, I am so anti-racist that I believe that women and men of colour deserve better than to have privileged white teachers in State schools, who do not live by anything near their moral code, being "approachable" and allowing their sons or daughters to confide explicit details of their sexual relationships or experiences to them.

Most of the younger thoroughly pro-life, pro-family people with large families I have met are either Muslim, Hindu, Sikh [all Asians] or Black people in Pentecostal, 7th day Adventist or similar hyperconservative churches. They generally cannot afford private or home schooling so must send their children to state schools. When they get there, there are people who will keep secrets for them, and sometimes even refer them to BPAS clinics (!!) without their parents knowing a thing. They don't get any chance to opt out, which even worldwide liberal hotspot New York City offers parents over their in-school emergency contraception dispensing.

They do not need white decadence thrown at their children. They are the strongest communities in the UK and have better values than most whites (and no, that's not "reverse-racism", as people of colour have no systematic power over whites in this country and having good family values is not a tool of oppression in the first place.) Policies in schools denying parents the right to know what their children are up to on serious moral issues such as sex have a DISCRIMINATORY effect on immigrant and ethnic minority communities, simple as that. That is why so-called progressives should oppose them.

very I don't find that you can separate the two issues though.

Medical practitioners are always making decisions on probabilities not certainties.

If the rules say the womans life must be in danger than you have carte blanche to never treat because it can never be proved at the time of treatment that life is endangered.

Saying "reasonably risk" is not much better. Who can call a "reasonable risk" on the day? and who could disagree?