Woman dies in Galway after being denied termination

[AThingInYourLife]

Holy evil pro-life bastards, batman

The wonder is it that there haven't been more

RIP Savita Halappanavar :(

She's a living, breathing oxymoron.

The law of the land defines crime, not sin, and Christians do not "harass" homosexuals- usually inadequate bullying fools of the same type who harass blacks, asylum seekers or benefit claimants would do so. It is not a part of Christian values to behave in that way with anyone.

"democratic secular support"- most Americans are Christian and there are laws against obscenity which Mapplethorpe broke. It was just that the San Francisco-Seattle-New England lot don't care and groups like AFA, FRC, CWFA do. Funding filth should not be part of a government's remit- that is a mainstream, majority opinion.

OK, I am anti-abortion. That is fair terminology.

And no it isn't "my problem" who I believe will be judged. It is the problem of whoever God judges, and if they CHOOSE to reject Him, it will be THEIR problem. All this lying "my" and "your" "god" trash will be kicked into the eternal garbage can on Judgment Day, by Jesus with the Father in the power of the Spirit, and there is nothing the anti-theists or the pomo "my truth is personal and different to your truth" liars can do about it. Sorry.

Oooooh I'm SO scared.

Catholic left-wing feminist. You are either not a very good Catholic, not a very good feminist, or not a very good left-winger................... with highly developed enough cherry picking skills to justify your position to yourself. Whatever that is.

Respect OnTheRoad. I hope mathanxiety comes on this- she's a Catholic centre-left anti-extremist feminist too, who I have had some very respectful discussion with.

wow. This came a long way away from the original topic.

I have so much rage what with this and the Israel situation that I just want to scream at the whole world.

Something like: OI RELIGIONISTS! WILL YOU JUST STOP FUCKING KILLING PEOPLE.

I'm happy to take my chances with judgement day thanks.

I really want to name change to EternalGarbageCan right now.
On second thoughts, Zombies is a nicer name.

If that is what you believe Extro, so be it. But it is utterly obnoxious to preach at us like we are idiots just because we have used reason and logic to come to a different set of beliefs.

OnTheRoad - I am a Christian (christian/"Christian"?) and a feminist and people think I am left wing but Extrospectiv most certainly doesn't speak for me. I don't see how you can avoid the issue of some Drs understanding of Christianity because they used this to deny her treatment.

all political positions involve cherry picking one idea or another. or are you entirely doctrinaire from one source you believe to be the only relevant one? (like fundamentalist Christians, which I am not- I am evangelical but not nearly hard-line enough to be classed as fundamentalist by the standards of most surveys and most sociologists of religion I've read. My lack of belief in a 6,000 year old Earth and spanking children, my not agreeing that all who live and die without ever hearing about Jesus will go to hell forever, and my belief that most of the OT is not to be taken literally, would put paid to any chance of that- and a lot more besides.)

I am frequently misidentified as a fundamentalist as if they are the only ones who espouse traditional sexual ethics and pro-life.

oohh dear. tut tut tut Extro What if God only wants fundamental christians in heaven...you are as screwed as the rest of us....

Ah, Christan love - ain't it precious?

(Sorry to the 99% of Christians who are not mentally unbalanced like this loon. I do know she's not representative. Thankfully).

electro are you entirely doctrinaire from one source you believe to be the only relevant one?
I could probably be classified as liberal. Feminist. Pro capital punishment in certain circumstances. Not liberal in terms of penal policy.
So please don't imagine everyone can be or likes to be put in a box.
Which you apparently don't like to be, yet persist in putting others in.

I should out myself as a namechanger who is on your list. I'm very proud to be on it as it goes.

Extrospektiv Thu 15-Nov-12 11:38:43
Oh and Christians who belong to groups like the "Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice" are almost as bad as atheists to me, KRITIQ.

So let me get this straight. Its FINE for you to insult bad Christians and atheists. But when other people question your views (NOT your religion which you insist on hiding behind) they are being anti-religious?

Na, you are picking and choosing what you think is appropriate just as much as any other person picks and chooses their morality. You are not following the one true faith, because no such thing actually exists.

There is no one single doctrine of Christian faith. In fact divisions of Christian faith have lead to some pretty bloody conflicts. Often more down to the leadership and those who want power over others rather than having anything to do with whats written in any testament or religious book. Its used and abused.

Strangely when you start looking at similarities because religions and faiths, where morality overlaps its generally where tolerance, empathy and forgiveness are promoted. If God forgives everything and He is the only one truly capable of judgement, then doing the best thing for you individual circumstances is down to intent rather than actual actions. Therefore if a woman feels that an abortion is the best course of action and can have sound justification to do that even if it is hard and she has many regrets about it, then I am sure that God will forgive.

You made the comparison upthread that abortion was similar to someone going on a killing spree - all deliberate killing is the same. So please tell me how killing in self defence fits into all this? And I have to ask at what point does war to protect your rigid and uncompromising beliefs become a necessity?

The truth is, you can justify most things with religion and find the correct passage in whichever religious book you read to back you up if you really want. And THAT is all about choice. There is no pure religion because after 2000 years and every time something is translated and the moral compass of society changes, the meaning of those words gets distorted.

Morality is ultimately about consensus within society at any given time. You don't need religion for it. It can be a guide, but that is it. No religion exists in isolation - compromise and tolerance is what is needed in every society. To not do so ALWAYS results in conflict and breaking of the very vows of which you hold dear. Rigid and uncompromising points of view are where problems occur.

Thou Shalt Not Kill, ALWAYS seemed to have exceptions that were justifiable in the eyes of God.

So yeah, really when anyone tells me that God says this or that and I should obey, I really do think they should stick it.

Thats not the case; its always been guidance rather than absolute decree, otherwise God would not given us free choice to walk his path or to chose not to in the first place.

In your own words:
Whoever referred to God as an "imaginary being in the sky", will face reality of God at the final judgment.

Well I think I'll just take my chances and believe that God will judge me based on whats in my heart even if I do happen to be human and not always get it right and make mistakes, and sometimes make difficult decisions that are not pleasant, not black and white and don't follow the letter of a particular doctrine. (and that includes if you happen to be a follower of the 'wrong' sect of Christianity, follow another faith, are agonistic or even atheist)

And here endth the sermon. Hallelujah and all that Jazz.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

btw what is the collective term for people who believe in an organised religion of some sort?

clearly it isn't religionists.....

I'm a Catholic left-wing feminist

You can't be those as they all exclude each other. The RC church does not support contraception and is a patriarchy. You can't be said to be part of a club if you don't abide by its rules. So you should pick one of the above-mentioned causes and fight for it, whether that be catholicism, feminism or left-wing views.

Sorry extro not electro.

My lack of belief in a 6,000 year old Earth

So, you're an uneducated cretin then as well as a ranting, homophobic bigot? Why am I not surprised.

Leaving this thread now because people like this make me sooooooooooooooo fucking angry & this is supposed to be about Savita.

Extro - again, 'in your opinion'. A lie is a deliberate untruth. I won't accuse you of 'lying' - but you are presenting unprovable statements as fact without qualification, which could be seen as a not entirely truthful position.

OK. Back to the topic. I'm sure the vast majority of Catholics and Irish people are appalled by this case - by what was done (or rather, not done) explicitly because of Ireland being a 'Catholic country'. I would like to know if any are planning to protest 'Not in my name; not in my country' to try to ensure that this sort of tragedy never happens again.

crikey to be fair to Extro I think she was saying that she doesn't believe the earth is 6000 years old.

On Saturday, a candlelit vigil for Savita is being organised by Galway Pro-Choice at 5pm in Eyre Square, Galway and Action On X is organising a candlelight vigil in Dublin at 4pm ?to grieve Savita?s unnecessary death? from the Garden of Remembrance to the Dáil.

I wondered how long it would be until extro showed up on this thread.

You say you wont 'harass' homosexuals but you would deny them basic rights such as ths right to marriage.

You can have whatever views you want but yoi cannot impose them on others. Religion has no place in medical practise unless it us a patient ie a jehovah choosing no blood products and then they should be at an age to make the choice for themselves, hence why courts will iver rule parents in some circumstances to save the life of a child.

Oh and if there is a god i would say he/she/it would be far more likely to judge you than someone of no belief who has lef a good life with the motto 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself' you want and have the right to hold your views but you cant impose them on others. Just as i have the right not to believe in god and to have an abortion should i need to do so. I wont force you to have an abortion against your will, so dont try and deny me my right to bodily autonomy.

Hope both will have huge attendance.