Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

[Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold]

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

Im watching now too. What theyve been through is heartbreaking. Seeing Jenny not wanting to wash her daughters sheets. What theyve been through is horrific.
I agree this should be shown prime time at 9pm on ITV1 Fuck X Factor. Fuck Downton Abbey soaps etc.
Pull them off and show this. I will e mail them too.

Does anyone know ITVs full e mail address. I cant get the link to work.

Horrific.

My brother could have been one of them. But so could yours.

JFT96

I just sent from my usual email address to [email protected]

Thanks Carteblanche x

Done.

Thing is, it wasn't just the middle classes who bought into the whole football-is-dominated-by-hooligans thing. My family on my Dad's side are working class but from a community with a rugby heritage rather than a football one, IYSWIM. They would often say that rugby was a game for hooligans enjoyed by gentlemen and football was a game for gentlemen enjoyed by hooligans. I don't think a single one of them ever thought that hooliganism contributed to Hillsborough, but they did think that there was a genuine hooliganism problem endemic in football during the '80s and that a football crowd had a capacity for violence that a rugby league crowd just didn't, and so football crowds needed to be policed differently from other events.

I've read the comments on here from football fans that hooliganism in the '80s was exaggerated by the media and I believe them. But if working class people like my Dad's family believed the press then it can't have been as simple as a class issue.

I've just emailed ITV now :)

Tony Edwards, who was on the only ambulance allowed onto the pitch, was interviewed on R4 this morning. It was moving and angering- to hear him describe that the others were turned back 'because there was 'still fighting on the pitch' and this was causing an obstruction. To hear him (obv a vital witness to events) say that he wasn't called to give evidence for the Taylor report beggars belief. I actually wondered if I'd heard it correctly. He says he wants his day in court.

I sincerely hope that the families can get justice now - for both the lethal lack of management that led to the tragedy on the day, and the cover up.

The interview was on r4 at about 9.15 this morning if anyone wants to listen again.

JFT96

I am that people still believe that Hillsborough was about hooliganism. I naively believed that people knew it wasn't days after the event, and that the Sun lied years ago. Horrified that people still believe the lies.

I agree with CinnabarRed above. My parents were from very working class families and they also thought football wasn't quite 'respectable'. Again, they never believed that hooliganism contributed to Hillsborough, but don't just assume that it was the middle classes who were snobby about football.

I know it isn't political in the sense that all parties let them down but the demonisation of the dead was stoked by a Tory MP, Irvine Patnick, and Maggie and her all-powerful press secretary, Bernard Ingham, turned up in Sheffield the next day and Ingham spread Irvin's lies very effectively. Ingham made Mandelson look like a pale imitation, btw.

Was it Hillsborough that started the trend for those black humour joke donor cards that said 'in the event of my hospitalisation, I do not want to be visited by the Prime Minister'?

Im just watching "Hillsborough" now, not for the first time. It was a brillisnt programme made with feeling. It showed the truth. my friends who were there that day gave evidence at the enquiry and they were appalled at how the truth was being hidden and that the fans were blamed for everything.

The story that always hit me the hardest was the Hicks family. All their lives ended that day, the two poor girls went to watch football and just never came home. The parents marriage fell apart.

I was 17 at the time and had a three year old cousin in Intensive Care after an accident, so Hillsborough hit me hard, especially with my friends actually being there that day. (sadly my little cousin died a fortnight later).

I went to Anfield to see a couple of matches with my friends and I stood on the Kop. I tripped over and a sea of hands reached down to help me up. The fans were fantastic.

JFT96

YNWA

edam I really believe those who need to be punished will now. All of them. All the evidence is there, and the PM wouldn't have made that speech if there was a chance they were not going to follow this through to it's proper conclusion.

The families were let down by all the parties. We have to live with that now.

As for Thatcher, somehow I feel there is a greater justice awaiting her.

growlithe I truely hope your right. I can see the families getting the inquests. As for the prosecutions of individuals, I'm not so sure. They have managed to worm their way out of things for so long. I think SYP may face charges as a force and some individuals will lose their jobs. But nobody will go to prison. I hope I'm wrong.

As you say about Thatcher, Hilsborough was the tip of the iceberg for the damage she caused.

I know this thread isnt about Thatchers other crimes, but i said to DH that i fear this is the final nail in her coffin.

I come from a working class family in the north east of England. However my parents are staunch supporters of Thatcher, perhaps if i told you that my dad was a serving police officer under her government and they bought their council house under 'right to buy' then i guess you will all have an inkling why she is so revered by my parents. Not by me though. Sorry for that mini hijack.

I have Hillsborough on record from last night, as i said upthread i watched it in '96 (poignant year to show it ) I shall watch it tomorrow on my day off so i can weep in peace.

Has anyone heard the song SYMM by Manic St Preachers. It was the last track on their album 'This is my truth tell me yours'. SYMM stands for South Yorkshire Mass Murderer. It is about Duckenfield. I have had that in my head subliminally for the last week

JFT96

May i post the lyrics to the song above? I had forgotten that he referenced Jimmy McGoverns docu drama.

"S.Y.M.M."

The subtext of this song
I've thought about it for so long
But it's really not the sort of thing
That people want to hear us sing

The context of this song
Well I could go on and on
But it's still unfashionable
To believe in principles

South South Yorkshire - mass murderer
How can you sleep at night, sleep at night

South South Yorkshire - mass murderer
How can you sleep at night, sleep at night

The reason for this song
Well maybe it's a pointless one
But thank you Jimmy McGovern
For reminding me of what lives on

The ending for this song
Well I haven't really thought of one
There's nothing I could ever say
That could really take the pain away

South South Yorkshire - mass murderer
How can you sleep at night, sleep at night
South South Yorkshire - mass murderer
How can you sleep at night, sleep at night

Martha i was a Manic fan but i didnt know about this song. Thanks for posting it.

martha my dad is a bit like that. I had a disageement with him last night. A big one. He said that to quash the original inquest verdict and open new inquests would,and i quote "cost too much money" Unbelivable.
I pointed out that new inquests are the least that the families and their lost loved ones deserve because the original verdicts are wrong.
New TRUE verdicts are also needed to assist with the prosecutions of the people responsible.
How would he feel if it was me and DB (me and DB were sixteen and fourteen in "89.
Trouble is my dad buys the Mail and ive also told him time and time again what i think of that fucking hate rag.

Warning Of Hillsborough cover up ignored by judge.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hillsborough-warning-of-coverup-was-ignored-by-judge-8142516.html

Neil Atkinson, on the Anfield Wrap podcast, said "We've known the truth for 23 years. Now we know the extent of the lies". I think that pretty much sums it up, for those who knew the facts.

Darks, your Dad's costs argument is bogus because the costs were caused by the cover-up. If those in authority had confessed to their inadequacy at the time, been open about their mistakes and apologised fulsomely to the families, and showed they had actually learned the lessons, we wouldn't be needing to hold new inquests now. Instead the wrong-doers have spent millions of pounds hiding the truth.

Oh edam i agree. I do NOT share my dads views about a lot of things including this. Or my mothers come to that.
Their views are coloured by what they read and watch.

I explained to him why the new inquests were needed. Because the verdicts of the original ones are WRONG.
New inquests with truthful verdicts will hopefully help the families and their lost loved ones find peace. And the new verdicts will help bring forward prosecutions.
And i hope the system does this very very soon. The families have waited and fought for long enough. JFT96.

No, I realise you don't share his views, just wish people who moan about costs would realise those costs are incurred by the wrong-doers, not by the innocent victims.

The Bloody Sunday Inquiry cost a staggering amount of money. But those responsible are those who hushed up what went on.

Know how you feel edam. it makes me angry too when people refuse to see the bigger picture thats staring them in the face.