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George Galloway - insertion not rape

301 replies

stargirl1701 · 20/08/2012 16:28

Just read a tweet where it is suggested former MP George Galloway feels that once a woman decides to have a sex with a men he can have sex with her subsequently, while she sleeps, as the man doesn't need consent for each "insertion"! In his view, this does not constitute rape. WTF! This is his defence of the allegations against Assange.

OP posts:
NarkedRaspberry · 21/08/2012 14:57

Minor annoyance rather than major violation.

That's not your decision to make. It's not your body that's being penetrated in this case allegedly without a condom leaving the woman at risk of STIs and pregnancy.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 14:57

Legally it is rape but you think it is a bit petty?!?!??

AnyFucker · 21/08/2012 14:59

"legally it is rape"

"but it's just a bit petty"

do you expect us to take you seriously, dinah, when you conflate those two sentences ?

think yourself lucky you are not in an abusive situation, carry on having fully-consensual fun with your partner, and let the people who can think outside of such a narrow sphere of experience make the Big Girl decisions, yeah ?

THERhubarb · 21/08/2012 15:00

Dinah, oh Dinah.
There was someone on Mumsnet just last week whose happy marriage is crumbling about her because her partner fancied some anal sex. She didn't, she'd just had a baby but tough because she was in bed naked with him which surely meant she was up for it right?

Women have fought for years to rid men of the notion that we are mere belongings. Yes we might have agreed to sex but that does not mean that they can then have sex with us whenever they fancy. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok for him to shag her as she's trying to get up? As she's trying to get out of the room?

And what about using protection? I know I won't let my dh near me unless he's using a condom, but suppose he fancies trying it without? Would I be petty in not letting him? Should we women just face the fact that once we've said yes we have to pretty much let them do anything they want during the course of that night because to deny them would be petty?

I'm pleased you are so subservient to your man. Some of us however have minds of our own and our bodies belong to no-one but us. So yes, they bloody well ask before they stick their cocks inside us.

MmeLindor · 21/08/2012 15:02

Fucking hell, Dinah. That is appalling.

Youre not obliged to have sex with someone just because you had sex with them once, but in practically the same sitting, when you hadnt even left the same bed and there was no reason to think anything had changed,

So if you have sex with your partner, he can at any point stick his penis into your vagina without warning? Is that while you are still in bed, or can you get up and go to the loo and reset the clock? What if it is later the same day? Still fair game?

AnyFucker · 21/08/2012 15:03

you have been reported dinah

it's also been brought to HQ's attention that you repeatedly turn up on these kinds of thread to spout rape myths, victim-blame and advocate the appeasing of abusive men

just so you know Smile

MmeLindor · 21/08/2012 15:04

Dinah
Your sexual practices with your partner are neither here nor there.

And calling it a 'minor sexual misdemeanor' is sickening.

DinahMoHum · 21/08/2012 15:04

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THERhubarb · 21/08/2012 15:04

So why the rape case in Sweden and what has that to do with the US wanting his extradition?

Lengthy copy and paste for which I apologise but to link to the correct bit would take some doing.

Both the UK and Sweden refuse to guarantee that they will not extradite Julian Assange to the United States. Political and military extraditions are expressly prohibited under the extradition treaty between Sweden and the United States, so this refusal is unusual. Moreover, it is likely that the US will request extradition on charges that are not overtly political (see below).

Shortly after issuing the EAW and Interpol Red Notice to 188 countries, the prosecutor Marianne Ny originally stated that extradition to the United States was ?out of the question? (05 December 2010) - but her statements were later redacted (see Prosecution).

The Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt has adopted several strategies in order to lessen the pressure on him to provide assurances that Julian Assange will not be extradited to the United States:

  1. Reinfeldt claims that the decision to extradite Julian Assange is up to the courts, not the executive.

This is false. Sweden?s extradition treaty with the United States explicitly prohibits political and military extraditions. The final decision lies in the hands of the executive, who can block an extradition if it believes that political/military motivations underlie the extradition order. However, it it difficult to prove the underlying motivations of an extradition order. The US is likely to issue an order under charges that are not overtly political (see below).

It is likely that the United States will decide to charge Julian Assange with a number of offences (whether or not in conjunction with espionage) that are seemingly not political offences. The US Department of Justice has broadened its attack to include a possible indictment under the federal computer crimes statute, which it would argue was a non-political offence. Sweden is likely to consent to such an extradition given its close relationship with the US and the argument that the offences he is being sought for are not political in nature.

It is difficult for an individual to prove that the underlying motivations for an extradition are political, especially where the requesting state is a close political ally, which is the case of the United States both for Sweden and for the UK. Swedish troops are under NATO-US command in Afghanistan. Sweden was one of the first countries to send fighter jets to Libya at the request of the US and, in June, the Swedish parliament voted to send marines to Libya together with more fighter jets (See Political Interference).

  1. Reinfeldt claims that it is not up to Sweden, but up to the UK, whether or not Julian Assange is extradited to the United States.

Sweden is shifting attention away from the fact that the final decision of whether to extradite Julian Assange to the United States or to block it is an executive decision.

Under EU law, Sweden should only initiate Julian Assange?s onward extradition if and when the UK gives its agreement, but the UK has little incentive to block an extradition order if Sweden does not take the step to do so first. Moreover, legal commentators in the UK have stated that it is likely that the UK would consent to Julian Assange?s extradition from Sweden (this is likely to raise less criticism and mobilisation if Julian Assange is not physically under UK custody).

Sweden has in the recent past violated international treaties in relation to surrendering foreign nationals into US custody to be interrogated and tortured (case of extraordinary rendition, Agiza v. Sweden at the European Court of Human Rights). Furthermore, Amnesty International and the UN Committee against Torture criticised Sweden because it rendered two refugees to the CIA who were then tortured under the Egyptian regime of Hosni Mubarak. (A documentary with the testimony of tortured refugees who had been granted asylum and then rendered to the CIA by Sweden was aired on Swedish television on 5 October 2011.

Diplomatic assurances that the person extradited will not be subjected to torture or other inhumane and degrading treatment are not a sufficient guarantee to prevent Julian Assange from suffering such treatment while in US custody, or to realize a fair trial in the United States, given the politicization of the allegations against him.

The UK and Swedish governments can choose to allege that Julian Assange is not wanted for political offences, and will not interfere with a judicial decision (despite the fact that this ?judicial decision? would be taken by the secret grand jury in Virginia where there is no judge or defence counsel).

Given that Julian Assange is neither a citizen nor permanent resident in Sweden or the UK, these countries have little incentive to afford him the type of protection they would afford one of their own citizens or permanent residents. Moreover, it is safe to assume that both the UK and Swedish government have come under pressure to comply with the United States? upcoming request for Julian Assange?s extradition (these pressures by the US government proved effective in the extra-judicial and arbitrary denial of service by Mastercard, Visa, Paypal, Western Union & Bank of America of WikiLeaks donations).

JamieandTheOlympicTorch · 21/08/2012 15:05

I'm sorry, I can't read all this at the moment. I guessed this would be on here, and I am so angry. Caught some of the Jeremy Vine show and had to turn it off.

This has just confirmed what I suspected to be the case about that vain egotistical man.

JamieandTheOlympicTorch · 21/08/2012 15:05

That's GG by the way

MrsBucketxx · 21/08/2012 15:05

dinoh you are married to them you know him well and know they would like this sort of thing i have done the same and dh has woken me with his advances he knows i like it and continued. this woman was not in this sort of relationship, asange assumed that she would be compliant and she was not.

if i said no in any part of my sex life dh would stop immediately. and if i was so out of it that i didnt wake i know he would stop to.

there is a difference.

TheCrackFox · 21/08/2012 15:06

The best people to decided if Assange is a rapist is a jury in Sweden not a bunch of strangers (without most of the facts or evidence) on thr Internet.

Galloway is still a cunt.

DinahMoHum · 21/08/2012 15:06

oh read what you want to read. Fucking hell, reporting me for THAT??

nice fun board it is where you can all pat each other on the back and agree.

I think this is technically a legal issue, but i think it sucks that this is the thing people are concentrating on when the chances are that the women involved dont even give a fuck.

Dont you even see whats happening. Are you all blind?

yellowraincoat · 21/08/2012 15:10

If the women don't give a fuck, why did they report it?

Are YOU blind?

Why the FUCK would they try to get him back to Sweden for a trial knowing that it will be EVEN HARDER to extradite him to the US now that he has been in the UK? They will now need UK permission to extradite him.

This is SWEDEN. Not some tinpot dictatorship, SWEDEN. Pretty much the least corrupt country in the world.

So basically, either you and Assange's other supporters are full of shit, or the Swedish are really shit at conspiracy.

MmeLindor · 21/08/2012 15:11

Dinah
I reported you too, I am afraid.

Nothing against you personally, and I like a good debate, but it is damaging to have rape myths perpetuated on MN.

Saying that once you have consented to sex with a man, means that he can then continue to penetrate you is horrible. How do you think that makes women who have been raped feel?

Rape is not always violent. Some women don't fight back, for fear of being hurt, or to prevent the children being wakened, or for whatever reason.

Doesn't mean it is not rape.

THERhubarb · 21/08/2012 15:12

Whether it is a smokescreen or not Dinah, your attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

Sleeping with someone once does not count as a "sex session". I might sign up to sleep with someone, but I wouldn't want to be their fucking doll all night. Those women may have agreed to having sex once with a condom, what right does he have to shag them again without a condom?

He has no right.

Now he may or may not be guilty and yes there are questions about this that need answering which is why he should protest his innocence in court like everyone else would have to. I resent that he feels he is somehow above the law and 'special'.

What constitutes rape is a different subject and one which you Dinah need to read up on. In short, unless the woman agrees to it then YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING IT. Men know this which is why many of them try it on whilst their victims are asleep or they will claim presumptious agreement. That's all bollocks. You can't just presume that someone will want your dick inside them again whilst they are asleep. Esp if that person does not practice safe sex.

If you condone that behaviour then you are essentially saying that women are no better than objects, pure belongings, part of the furniture with no real feelings to consider.

solidgoldbrass · 21/08/2012 15:12

Thing is, WikiLeaks is a crock of overhyped shit and always has been. Half the info on it is either inaccurate or totally uninteresting, it's just willywaving boys trying to impress other willywaving boys.

And Assange's behaviour since the allegations were made has certainly given the impression of an arrogant, entitled rapist - he thinks he's so special he can do what he likes, including fucking sleeping women because, after all, they're only women and he's SO IMPORTANT and it's ALL ABOUT HIM. A decent man would have got himself a lawyer and faced the charges against him - he's due to be charged and tried in Sweden, which is a democratic country with an open justice system, it's not like they're going to ship him off to Gimo Bay for decades.

DinahMoHum · 21/08/2012 15:12

agreed that it needs to be tried by sweden, who will have much more facts about it than we do. At least they have degrees of it there

NarkedRaspberry · 21/08/2012 15:14

Just because the US want this man in court doesn't mean that the charges are unwarranted.

THERhubarb · 21/08/2012 15:14

Dinah, unless you know something we don't or have evidence to back up your theories then you are working on pure guesswork as are other posters on this thread.

You were not there love. You don't know what happened. You don't have all the facts. Neither do we. So your theory remains just that, a theory. You are not the judge in this case or the jury so calm yourself down dear, it's just a thread!

MrsBucketxx · 21/08/2012 15:15

i can see where your coming ftom dinoas this has not gone too trial and proven yet. they could be being paid by the americans etc.

but why he is hiding?/running, why i ask myself if he has nothing to hide he should go to trial and prove his innocence.

if i was being accused falsly i woukd be standing on the roof tops to protest my innocence.

DinahMoHum · 21/08/2012 15:17

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DinahMoHum · 21/08/2012 15:19

and im not a rapist or abuser sympathiser. NOT at ALL. im anything but. Consent is vital for me, but i think many people are not looking at the bigger picture here, and are being closed minded

yellowraincoat · 21/08/2012 15:21

"censored" - give me a fucking break. I spose there's a conspiracy against you as well now?

Assuming consent - well. Who the hell does that? A rapist, that's who.