Intensive mothers

[Xenia]

It seems pretty clear children benefit a lot if their mother has a good career and here is another piece of evidence of the damage housewives do to children:-

"Stay at home mothers are more likely to be unhappy than those who go out to work, according to new research.
Women who believe in "intensive parenting" are at risk of a range of mental illnesses including depression.

They think women are better parents than men, that mothering should be child centred and that children should be considered sacred and fulfilling.

This may put them in danger of suffering the 'parenthood paradox' where their ideology increases feelings of stress and guilt.

Psychologist Kathryn Rizzo, whose findings are published online in Springer's Journal of Child and Family Studies, said: "If intensive mothering is related to so many negative mental health outcomes, why do women do it?

"They may think that it makes them better mothers, so they are willing to sacrifice their own mental health to enhance their children's cognitive, social and emotional outcomes."
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She said parenting is a big task and requires a variety of skills and expertise. Many women rate the challenge as one of the most fulfilling experiences in life.

But some previous research has suggested it may be detrimental to mental health, with women reporting taking care of their children as more stressful than being at work.

So her team at the University of Mary Washington, Virginia, looked at whether intensive parenting in particular was linked to increased levels of stress, depression and lower life satisfaction among 181 mothers of children under five.

Using an online questionnaire, they found out to what extent the participants endorsed intensive parenting beliefs by measuring their responses to a series of statements.

These included "mothers are the most necessary and capable parent", "parents' happiness is derived primarily from their children" and "parents should always provide their children with stimulating activities that aid in their development".

Others were "parenting is more difficult than working" and "a parent should always sacrifice their needs for the needs of the child".

Overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

Almost one in four had symptoms of depression and these negative mental health outcomes were accounted for by their endorsement of intensive parenting attitudes.

When the level of family support was taken into account, those mothers who believed women are the essential parent were less satisfied with their lives. Those who believed that parenting is challenging were more stressed and depressed.

The researchers said overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

They added: "In reality, intensive parenting may have the opposite effect on children from what parents intend."

Earlier this year a study of more than 60,000 US mothers found 41 percent of those not in work experienced worry compared to 34 per cent of those employed.

And 28 per cent suffered depression, eleven per cent more than the others. Psychlogists fear the phenomenon is linked with feelings of isolation and a lack of fulfillment. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9381449/Stay-at-home-mothers-more-unhappy-than-those-who-work.html

Ths is the point. Men never get told they subcontract out childcare, never see their chidlren damage them, don't "bring them up", breach discredited bowlby theories, ought to be home 2 weeks after birth, cannot "have it all" ie work and home. Plenty of women have the pretty nice balanced lives most men achieve with a great mix of work and children. Very few women seem able to have what men have which is a huge shame.

What women want is not the point. A Saudi child bride thinks she wants the life se4t out for her. A Pakistani girl married at 15 thinks she wants to do as her husband says. A fundamentalist Christian or Muslim or Jew who kow tows to her husband and does as he says and is scripturally beaten by him even may regard it as right and indeed her desire. A secretary marrying her boss so she never works again may think this is her nirvana. The footballers' wife without a job who gets her spray tan and spends his money whilst looking good for him thinks she has what she wants.

Now the idea we d o as we want is the firs tthing to challenge. Plenty of us (particularly parents) do things all the time we don't want because it is morally good to do so. Most of us with a screaming baby probably want to sleep all night but we don't - we get up and breastfeed for 2 hours. Just because you might think you want to be a housewife doesn't mean that is really a true choice or secondly that it is morally right you give into your supposed desires. Since when is doing what you want a morally good thing necessarily?

What if you honestly think being a sahm is the morally right choice even though you know you could be out there laughing all the way to the bank if you contracted out the parenting?

Maybe the answer to the problem of women not making money while being sahms is to pay them? Maybe a way to increase the prestige of the job is to make sure men know they are subcontracting out the childcare, and maybe they should all know how much it would cost them if there wasn't someone available to do it without financial remuneration?

Corikey Xenia. Please do continue.

Anyone else up for a "This is how things would be if I were Queen of the Universe" proclamations?

What if you honestly think being a sahm is the morally right choice

what does that mean?

Xenia, can you just clarify for me, as I think this is the essence of your contribution to the thread:

You're trying to convert women to the feminist cause by telling them that they have a moral obligation to work, even if they would rather be with their children?

Actually, very few men have what 'men' supposedly have.

How many people of either sex can possibly fit into a boardroom anyway?

Most people scrape by, with a great mix of penny pinching, anxiety about heating bills, worry about whether sub par schools and how they may damage their children, juggling childcare with work by both parents that is boring and insecure and doesn't pay enough. It's not called the life/work balance.

What if you honestly think being a sahm is the morally right choice

Doesn't matter because if you think that you are obviously deluded and oppressed. The whole culture needs to shift & frames of reference must be realigned, thus She has spoken.

'Just because you might think you want to be a housewife doesn't mean that is really a true choice or secondly that it is morally right you give into your supposed desires. Since when is doing what you want a morally good thing necessarily?'

YoYo, my question was in answer to Xenia's statement there that women who are SAHMs have done what they wanted (they have been duped somehow into thinking this was what they wanted) instead of what they should have done for moral reasons (i.e. work outside the home).

In real life it is the WOHM who is attacked most, IME anyway.

There is a fashion for intensive parenting - in many forms. It puts mothers under huge pressure, whatever choices we have or whatever choices we make. Pressure and guilt are not good for our mental health.

Xenia is a great role model. As is wordfactory and other SAHMs.

minty I don't get bored of xenia because she makes me laugh and she is a lone voice.

I am a feminist and I have a DD. I feel i have a duty to her and all her peers to ensure that they aren't made to feel terrible for choosing to, or indeed having to, work.

Surely we all feel the same for our DDs?

If we say that SAH is a moral choice, then we are saying that WOH is immoral. Is that what we want to tell our DDs? Really?

What a horrible burden to place upon them.

My work is not yet done thus I must continue to convert women to the working feminist cause

Are you feeling ok?

actually i think its great to have a women saying you can go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth and everything be fine.

GREAT

Who decided it was your job to tell other women how to raise their children?

It is great to be in a position to go back early, if that's what you want. Why shouldn't Xenia be able to do the work she loves? She looked after her dc at the same time.

Too many women feel a moral obligation to stay at home due to cod psychology. I know I did. I felt too guilty to go back to work, and I regret that now

yes on the the cod psychology. the telgraph story was about real academic research. if you take away the WOH/SAH part, it was about pressure on women to be responsible for their DCs welfare in a way men arent.

But who is to decide whether a person has made a 'true choice' or not? Are you saying that, collectively, women actually don't know their own minds?

I think most SAHMs on here have experienced the world of work and know what they're missing, and many could probably return to work if they chose to, so the comparison to the Saudi child bride doesn't really work very well.

What, so we should all do what YOU want us to do instead of what we want to do ourselves?

Can honestly say your breathtaking arrogance disgusts me. People like you think of themselves as feminists whilst belittling the choices other women before you have fought for women to have. You also put younger women off 'feminism' full stop as they don't want to be some mad bat forced to live their life on someone else's terms as part of some 'greater good'.

You've actually made me feel slightly sick.

'If we say that SAH is a moral choice, then we are saying that WOH is immoral. Is that what we want to tell our DDs? Really?

What a horrible burden to place upon them.'

Agree but it is equally horrible to imply that anyone has a moral duty to WOH, that SAHMs are creatures led by base instincts and too stupid and blinkered by the prevailing culture to recognise that they are shooting themselves in the foot by caring for their homes and children, not to mention hobbling their children because of the selfish choice they make to care for them personally.

While I find Zenia amusing occasionally, this sort of codswallop needs to be nipped in the bud.

Holeyghost no one is telling Xenia she can't have the job she loves. So why the fuck is she telling other women that they can't have the kind of life they love?

I feel like I've taken fucking crazy pills reading this thread.

I have never felt guilty but then I am lucky enough to have been able to make decisions that have suited me, thankfully up until this point without having some other women telling me what I should do.

It's the presumption that only she is right. I think women should be free to make their own choices.

Who decided it was your job to tell other women how to raise their children?

But you don't understand, tsk, tsk, it's the cultural delusions you suffer under. If only you understood how the rest of the world operates, or at least, should operate. And it isn't just how you raise your children, it's what job you get, where you went to school, your entire set of ambitions in life. Really, raising children is just a small part of the entire picture of what your life should be like. It's just such a shame that so many are so deeply oppressed, ignorant and deluded about it all.

And Isn't it lovely that some people are so selfless as to light and lead the torch to another world where we can all live so much more happily? All Hail the Enlightened Leader!

mini I think they should be free too.

But that also means free from guilt or sexist assumptions about what makes a good mother.

The reality is that of the next generation of women most will have to work. So passing on the idea that good mothers don't work, really is heaping the shit onto our DDs.

I for one don't think morality comes in to it.

I think the only thing that is immoral about any of it is sitting in judgement on the choices other women make when this choice is concerned.

'I feel like I've taken fucking crazy pills reading this thread.' Yes, me too..

I don't agree with the OP but her views make a refreshing change. And it is amusing instructive to see how much rage she provokes with them.

Women are put under immense pressure, judged whatever we do. I wish that sites like this one did not add to it.