Intensive mothers

[Xenia]

It seems pretty clear children benefit a lot if their mother has a good career and here is another piece of evidence of the damage housewives do to children:-

"Stay at home mothers are more likely to be unhappy than those who go out to work, according to new research.
Women who believe in "intensive parenting" are at risk of a range of mental illnesses including depression.

They think women are better parents than men, that mothering should be child centred and that children should be considered sacred and fulfilling.

This may put them in danger of suffering the 'parenthood paradox' where their ideology increases feelings of stress and guilt.

Psychologist Kathryn Rizzo, whose findings are published online in Springer's Journal of Child and Family Studies, said: "If intensive mothering is related to so many negative mental health outcomes, why do women do it?

"They may think that it makes them better mothers, so they are willing to sacrifice their own mental health to enhance their children's cognitive, social and emotional outcomes."
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She said parenting is a big task and requires a variety of skills and expertise. Many women rate the challenge as one of the most fulfilling experiences in life.

But some previous research has suggested it may be detrimental to mental health, with women reporting taking care of their children as more stressful than being at work.

So her team at the University of Mary Washington, Virginia, looked at whether intensive parenting in particular was linked to increased levels of stress, depression and lower life satisfaction among 181 mothers of children under five.

Using an online questionnaire, they found out to what extent the participants endorsed intensive parenting beliefs by measuring their responses to a series of statements.

These included "mothers are the most necessary and capable parent", "parents' happiness is derived primarily from their children" and "parents should always provide their children with stimulating activities that aid in their development".

Others were "parenting is more difficult than working" and "a parent should always sacrifice their needs for the needs of the child".

Overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

Almost one in four had symptoms of depression and these negative mental health outcomes were accounted for by their endorsement of intensive parenting attitudes.

When the level of family support was taken into account, those mothers who believed women are the essential parent were less satisfied with their lives. Those who believed that parenting is challenging were more stressed and depressed.

The researchers said overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

They added: "In reality, intensive parenting may have the opposite effect on children from what parents intend."

Earlier this year a study of more than 60,000 US mothers found 41 percent of those not in work experienced worry compared to 34 per cent of those employed.

And 28 per cent suffered depression, eleven per cent more than the others. Psychlogists fear the phenomenon is linked with feelings of isolation and a lack of fulfillment. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9381449/Stay-at-home-mothers-more-unhappy-than-those-who-work.html

The bottom line that as long as so many women give up work or go part time women will never get anywhere. You cannot get away from that political issue of gender politics.

As for most women enjoying housework and hours of unrelenting childcare with several under 5s most do want a break from it. It is inherently boring because you clean the baby sick off your shirt and then it sicks again. You clear up the toddler's poo and it messes up again. The main part of tje jobs is dull and awful. I did like it with the baby twins (I adore babies) that the nanny coudl bring me them to feed and cuddle and then took them away to clear them up , clean them, bath them etc and I had them for just the right period every day, lovely, adorable. Most parents, fathers and mothers like that, a limited period of child care a day and someone else doing the dull bits. Perfection and it is achieved by women who earn a lot.

There you are Xenia- the proof that we are all different - I couldn't abide the Victorian idea of just seeing them for a short period in the day and having to hand them to a Nanny. What a shame that you never try to think that other people are different.

hear hear

I am a very rich woman IMO, I have a fab husband and 3 happy healthy children. We have a roof over our heads, food in our bellies and love in our hearts. That's richness. Poor poor Xenia, has Charles Dickens taught you nothing? Or the fragility of life that we have all seen recently on mumsnet? That richness for you comes from the weight of your wallet is very sad. I pity you.

The bottom line is that as long as childcare does not meet the twin criteria of affordability and high quality women in disproportionate numbers will not go back to work full time as they will be shortchanging their children.

The fact that childcare in many countries is substandard and grossly overpriced for what is offered is a function of the market. Many parents cannot be choosers -- childcare is as expensive and as bad in quality as the market can possibly tolerate without starting a scale of diminishing returns for the purveyors of care. Wish I could make graphs here..

The childcare crunch is also a function of government policy. Places where there is genuine commitment to equality of men and women tend to provide high quality and low cost or free childcare, with concomitant high taxes for all to pay for it. Those places also tend to recognise the ultimate benefit to the whole of society of making excellent childcare available to all thus ensuring the early, high-quality education of all children. There tends to be a sense that good things for all is good for society, but in Britain the reverse is true -- there is such an emphasis on status (class) that people tend not to think in democratic terms, or in terms of the greater good of all.

Xenia, what you are describing as perfection sounds a lot like bragging about status. This is, after all, the way parents who were very well off in days of yore, the Lord This and Lady That and the Honorable Whatever, used to be parents. It is the Royal Family way of doing things. Your neverending braying about your choice to leave the smelly bits to the help serves as a handy socio economic marker..

It also sounds like using children as adorable sources of personal amusement.

Too good to wipe her own baby's bottom, what do you expect from the women who thinks other women of lower ability or less motivation are nothing more than wet wipes to the arse of humanity.

I have googled to find all these surveys to show that women at home are depressed and they appear to be in the Daily Mail - a paper I refuse to read.
this one over 16 European countries says that only 11% of mothers want full time jobs. However, I very much expect that you can find a survey to say what you want it to say, if you try hard enough!

lol told you she has issues. :)

Xania, do you mind if I ask if you like children? Your own I mean.

This isn't a stealth boast and I think I've made my views on WOH mums pretty clear... but I love being with DS. He is the funniest, funnest person I know. That's why I stay at home with him rather than commuting two hours a day to interview famous comedians for the television. He's ace. I love hanging out with him and will do so for as long as I can. Being at home with him isn't boring at all. It's great.

I hate to burst your bubble about "housewives" as well, but I'm not chained to the kitchen sink. I have a cleaner, am just about to put DS in a nursery (I think good quality child care is a very positive thing for children) and get this: I am financially independent from my husband (gasp). I am fucking lucky I know, but I tell you this to challenge your assumptions. We might have chosen to stay home all day wiping up baby sick, but it doesn't make us all saps.

And you know what, I'm not sorry at all that I've left you at the coal face by leaving paid employment at the ripe old age of 38. I haven't let my sisters down, not in the slightest. I'm of the Angela Y Davies variety of feminists. I lift as I climb. And so should you.

Xenia has a blind spot- if you are at home you must be financially dependent on your husband, according to her reasoning. I am another 'lucky' one but I am not. I felt vastly liberated to be able to get off the career ladder for a while. I have never been bored, or boring, at home. I adore life with small children.

You work and work for years and years, you're always on the go
You never take a minute off, too busy makin' dough
Someday you say, you'll have your fun, when you're a millionaire
Imagine all the fun you'll have in your old rockin' chair

Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think
Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink
The years go by, as quickly as a wink
Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think

You never go to night clubs and you just don't care to dance
You don't have time for silly things like moonlight and romance
You only think of dollar bills tied neatly in a stack
But when you kiss a dollar bill, it doesn't kiss you back

Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think
Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink
The years go by, as quickly as a wink
Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think

She has another blind spot.
She does not believe,after perhaps 1000 women have told her in the last 11 years,that it is possible to enjoy being a SAHM.

Thing is life turns full circle, I wonder if Xenia's children will have the same aversions to poop and pee, they might leave mum sitting in her own when she's in her dotage.

And it really does go as quickly as a wink - and you can't get them back!

Ha! fruits I knew I can't be the only one... SAHMs who actively enjoy the break from their careers: we should get together with all those WOH mums who went back to work because (whisper it) they prefer working and spend some time patting each other on the back.

Guess what, we chose our own path. Go us. Now all we have to do is find a way for all women (and yes, men) to be supported to do the same.

All this harping on about the choice someone else has or hasn't made gets right on my tit ends.

One thing is for sure her DDs can't expect any childcare from Gran!

Love it cheerful :)

I think the problem is noclue, that she had her DCs at an age where I had just started my career and wouldn't have considered it - having time off would have been damaging. She will insist on lecturing us all as if we are young mums and not mature women, possibly in late 30s or our 40s, who have worked out our priorities in life and know what we want and have a plan for later on.

Yeah well that really is a fucker. It's a real shame that as a professional woman you either give up your career or outsource your kids if you're still on the treadmill. It's not fair. And how we know it's not fair: men don't face this dilemma.

But I stand by my earlier comments - carping about other people's choices advances women's cause not one iota.

A good version of 'Enjoy Yourself' with more verses

Men would face the dilemma if they were widowers or if they had a partner who only agreed to have DCs if the man was primary carers - I think that it is only a minority of women who would want that. It is something to discuss with your parter before you have DCs. We certainly discussed it, DH didn't just make assumptions. Women tend to be very judgemental about each other. I know my DH and DSs would just be amazed that you would waste time and energy even thinking about what others should do.

I did like it with the baby twins (I adore babies) that the nanny coudl bring me them to feed and cuddle and then took them away to clear them up , clean them, bath them etc and I had them for just the right period every day, lovely, adorable. Most parents, fathers and mothers like that, a limited period of child care a day and someone else doing the dull bits. Perfection and it is achieved by women who earn a lot.

And the nanny? What about her children? Or the cleaner? Presumably you have one of those too? And you are providing them with employment aren't you? But I don't suppose they can outsource their childrearing and housework. Is this therefore their fault for not aiming high enough?

@noclue Well, aren't you the charmer. At least you chose your name well. I do not and have never outsourced my kids.

'The bottom line that as long as so many women give up work or go part time women will never get anywhere.'

It's not all about getting somewhere, it's about being somewhere; it's about the present rather than the future. Lots of people get somewhere and make it rich, but they find out it's not all it's cracked up to be. You can be a billionaire and still be unfulfilled.

I think Xenia may be slightly jealous of SAHMs; maybe getting there ain't really all that.

I think Xenia is secretly in awe of SAHPs. It's a way of life and a way of looking at life that challenges her comfort zone to much.

She's not in awe of other 'high powered' (or whatever you want to call us) women, as what they have is within her grasp. But SAHP who chose to be and are happy with their choices - truly, they shake her world.