Has there been no justice for Trayvon Martin because he was black?

[chewchewmeaw]

www.channel4.com/news/trayvon...orge-zimmerman

I'm inclined to think things might be different if the roles were reversed.

nobody else wanted to do it

& good ol' boy George just couldn't wait to be able to wander around with his gun

\link{http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11805788-the-trayvon-martin-story-what-really-happened\this account pretty much sums up how I view the circumstances}

'Although George Zimmerman claims to have been a captain of the neighborhood watch program, of the 22,000 neighborhoods registered under the program, Zimmerman?s name is not found among them.'

'According to Trayvon Martin?s girlfriend and Zimmerman as well, Trayvon was running away from Zimmerman. On the 911 tapes, you can hear Zimmerman say, ?He?s running. He?s getting away.? If Trayvon Martin was running ?away? from Zimmerman, how did a physical confrontation between the two take place where Trayvon was able to allegedly punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat him up? Although Zimmerman says that Trayvon Martin beat him up, there is no report that the police provided medical treatment for Zimmerman?s supposed bruises, gashes, and cuts, neither is there any record of Zimmerman going to any hospital to seek medical treatment after the incident.'

'What I find extremely questionable is Zimmerman?s account of how Trayvon Martin followed him to his truck, punched him in the nose, and wrestled him to the ground. The reason why I do not find Zimmerman?s story credible is because the 911 tapes clearly show that Zimmerman was actively and relentlessly pursuing Trayvon who ?he said? was running away. If Trayvon Martin was running away from Zimmerman as Zimmerman told the 911 dispatch officer, how could Trayvon then, all of a sudden, be following Zimmerman to his truck where he supposedly attacked him? A person can only go in one direction at a time.'

Agree ponders, it seems that a cop on scene wanted to arrest him and the interim report had other charges such as reckless endangerment as well as his name and phone number but had not contacted his parents!

Maths:

Didn't see your message. What info did he refuse to hand over and how did he stunt the police?
Is there another side audio clip?

Trigger happy, fantasise, immortality. , redneck? You seem to have your opinions set in stone. You seem to see this incident through the prism of race.

You might be right, or maybe he was attacked and being a fatty defended himself the only way he could.

Relentlessly? He walked after him for about 20 seconds.he seemed to stop when advised to

I dont think it was all if a sudden, it was 60a seconds later, I have reason to believe martin was able to change directions.

Trayvon did try to get away (going by the phone call evidence from his girlfriend, & what Zimmerman said to the dispatcher)

If Zimmerman had just let it go, Trayvon would have gone back to his dad's house (with his Skittles & iced tea) & nothing more would have happened

I think relentless is a fair judgment

At the end of the phonecall they were not in the same location.

How do you know the overweight guy was able to catch the football player rather than thaw martin returning to the scene as Zimmerman alleges?

because Zimmerman got back in his truck & drove around the estate looking for him?

Source?

Zimmerman is claims he was attacked on returning to his car

but the shooting happened right outside houses some distance from any road?

I concede I haven't seen a map of the area, but the TV coverage & witness statements don't seem to substantiate Zimmerman's claim

'On March 27 ABC News reported that the lead homicide investigator of Trayvon Martin's killing recommended that Zimmerman be arrested and charged with manslaughter. The investigator, Chris Serino, filed an affidavit on the night of the killing that he did not believe Zimmerman's story. Serino was overruled by the state attorney's office'

from the Guardian website

This is something I have tried to find. I have google earthed the area and tried to find where he made the call from compared to where the shooting occurred. But can't find it.

Houses in gated communitys have roads outside them though.

He was asked repeatedly to give his address and his phone number but refused.

He was running, or else he was far less fit than your average heavy set man.

Only a completely gung ho idiot who had left the realms of reality far behind would follow a man he assumed to be a criminal bent on criminal activity, with a gun. He absolutely should have assumed that Trayvon might be carrying a gun if he was in fact the criminal or gangbanger Zimmerman thought he was, and hence the operator's warning not to follow him, and the pleas for location information. Zimmerman said he would say where he was when he had Trayvon in his sights.

If it was a police non emergency number that Zimmerman called then he was in fact talking with a police officer.

From the Huffington Post:

'There is about a one-minute gap between when Zimmerman made the 911 call and when he came face-to-face with Martin that police say they're not sure what happened.

According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose.

Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help.

An individual can be heard screaming on the 911 audio, however, there's been a dispute amongst witnesses as to whether it was Zimmerman or Martin who was crying for help.

According to authorities, Zimmerman then shot Martin at close range. When the local police arrived at the scene, they found Zimmerman with a bloody nose, swollen lip and lacerations in the back of his head. Although paramedics gave him first aid, he said he did not need to go to the hospital and sought medical treatment the next day.'

So not any sort of life threatening injury, and Zimmerman could have concluded after Trayvon didn't produce a gun but instead used his fist that he didn't actually have one. OTOH, reaching for his phone might have made Trayvon think that Zimmerman was reaching for a weapon. To stand back or run in that case would have been insane for Trayvon. Obviously confronting Zimmerman near the SUV was not smart, but it is not a crime to ask someone why they are following you.

Ponders, that is also being reported in the American press and apparently the State's Attorney who refused to issue the warrant has also stepped down.

What clip is this when he refuses to give his address? The call one minute before he gave both his address and phone number.

Smashing someone head into the ground can kill.

"Zimmerman could have concluded after Trayvon didn't produce a gun but instead used his fist that he didn't actually have one" - well, quite

Obviously confronting Zimmerman near the SUV was not smart, but it is not a crime to ask someone why they are following you

all the TV footage that was shown earlier this month seemed to indicate that the final confrontation happened in a pedestrian area - of course they might have been misinformed

I just don't believe though that Trayvon went after Zimmerman

Don't think it necessarily matters though if the injuries were life threatening or not at that point. If (IF) Zimmermans account is correct and he was attacked, and the attack had progressed to the point where Trayvon Martin was had gotten on top of him (which has been stated by the first witness I saw quoted on the matter) and was punching him and hitting his head off the concrete then his use of a legally carried firearm to protect himself could be legitimate self-defence.
I'm still shocked at the follow up procedure and apparent lack of investigation which is something I'd feel confident in lambasting as shockingly below par and worse than you'd expect to find in some tin-pot republic.
However as there are still contradictory statements and stories being told I wouldn't be as confident in saying Zimmerman was not acting in self-defence yet, I heavily suspect he was not however there do seem to be areas of the differing accounts which seem to contradict each other significantly.

URallchickenlentil, he gave his phone number, but refused to give his address

Trayvon Martin was had gotten on top of him (which has been stated by the first witness I saw quoted on the matter)

mayorq, I haven't seen any witness statement to that effect

hold on, I'll try to find it.
If I'm misquoting or incorrect then I apologise whole-heartedly.

"A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.""

Don't know how reputable a new-source it is, just remembered having read it on one of the many links I've seen in the last few days.

www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

Dont think he refused to give his address. He gave his name, phone number he is the neighborhood watch coordinator in conjunction with local police, he has made many phone calls. His attempts to remain an anonymous assassin lack finesse.

'On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.'

well, that's Fox news.

& Tracy Martin is Trayvon's father.

so...you know...not a terribly reliable source!

MQ, the fact that Trayvon was merely punching him and not pumping him full of lead meant he should have concluded that the only weapon Trayvon had was his fists. To respond by shooting at close range was use of force disproportionate to the threat and guaranteed to kill.

Ponders -- the officer who filed an affidavit didn't believe Zimmerman's account either.

As I said it may not be, but at the moment there are no real reliable sources as to what exactly happened wrt the moment he got killed. And here is a report of an eye witness saying Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him. All I was saying above is that if Zimmermans account is true, and there is at least one alleged witness statement to corroborate his account, then the use of a legally held handgun could very well meet the standard for self-defence in that scenario.
As I said I think the police procedure is criminaly out of touch and that the chances are that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defence.
But that has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, not just what seems probably or how we instinctively feel about what may have happened.

I've also heard some interpretations of the "Stand your Ground law" they seem to have there and depending on who I've listened to it ranges from being idiotic to being down right asking for people to shoot each other.

Should he have waited till his brains were leaking o ut his ears? Shooting someone is not guaranteed to kill.

Source: 50 cent