Sad story re gay parents - what do you think?

[Nettee]

here

Don't know what the right answer is to this one can see all the parents' point of view. And such a shame the good friendship has fallen to pieces too. Not even sure what would be best for the little boy - a proper relationship with his dad or a stable family life with one home and two parents and a known biological father.

Yep, I was assuming they got married so that one could get residency. No suggestion there was a heterosexual relationship.

Also - sorry to be back for more - but those who have been saying that the child should have the same right to access as children of divorced parents are making a category error. I agree that children have a right to a relationship with their parents. BUT children whose parents have split up have a right to sustain the relationship they have, which is assumed to be equal with both parents, hence many children splitting their time so far as practicalities allow. The assumption of equal access is to preserve the status quo for the child.

But children born to lesbian parents, with an involved father, are in a different situation. My dd has enough access to her father to make the relationship real and fulfilling - one weekend in two, her own bedroom at his place, she usually chats to him on the phone a couple of times a week... But her primary parents are here, in her home. If he pushed for more access I would fight him on the beaches, because it would be very disruptive to her (already she misses so many activities and parties because she's with him) and to our family. I would see no benefit to her, and no obligation to him because he agreed from the start to be a secondary parent.

The fact that the law - and many people's perceptions - does not allow for our kind of family does not make it pseudo or inferior.

excellent post, reneevivien.

x-posted there. probably the second one was excellent as well, haven't read it. overall i'd say this hasn't felt very much like MN, this thread. glad that you've made the case that it's not the same as hetero divorce, i was trying to make same point but failing repeatedly.

Thanks, Aitch

Maryz - you are right about the name, I've been trying to feel like a Renee and it just ain't happening, plus the real Renee Vivien was of course a crazy lady and no role model. Reckon there's another namechange coming up

" Sorry Aitch, I didn't mean to imply that they were heterosexual. It is more likely that they decided to have a baby together, got married (I have known a couple, gay and lesbian who did this with the intention of having a baby together), and then she met a female partner and decided to have a bay with her, with him being a sperm donor only."

oh, really? i've never heard of anyone doing that before. that certainly would make a difference to managing his expectations, i agree.

if the will isn't even on MN i very much doubt it's anywhere else.

what a horrible situation for them all.

I think the analogy to a surrogate is probably valid - a surrogate mother who turned round a few years later and wanted access to the child equivalent to a divorced, non-resident parent would get far less sympathy than this man is receiving on this thread.

Dislike his barrister's claim that his boy 'is the only son his client is likely to ever have'. So? The child is not responsible for his father's decisions about having other children, or not having other children.

I know a family where the mothers are a gay couple who asked a gay male friend to be the father. But it's a much happier situation - right from the start they all agreed that my friend (the Dad) would be a proper Dad, fully involved in the child's life. It's worked so well that they went on to have another baby together. It's lovely. My friend's partner is especially thrilled - at my friend's birthday party really, he gave a speech thanking my friend 'for bringing the joy of children into my life'. Their two girls have four parents (my friend's partner wasn't around when the first child was conceived but has become a great step-Dad).

Yes Maryz, you are absolutely right. We are very very reliant on a shitload of goodwill, if I die before our DD is 18yo I would have to hope like hell that everyone would stick to their agreements and "allow" my DP to continue to raise HER daughter. The laws here in Ireland are an absolute and utter disgrace!

Yes indeed. There seems to be a general attitude of "well we gave you Civil Partnership now will you all just feck off to your ""alternative (weirdo) ways and be greatful we gave you anything". Despite the fact that they have COMPLETELY ignored children at all. Never mind my rights as a citizen. What about my daughters rights as a child in this country?
(Soap box moment sorry)

what renee said

and am glad i hadn't read all the thread and seen all the nonsense.

And am particularly enjoying Mary's speculations.

farely dp and i in exactly same position as your family - known donor, involved, not on birth cert, not resident. kids see him every 2 months or so, but am v. conscious of my vulnerability as non bio parent. but kids can inherit up with usual tax threshold from either civil partner, irrespective of biological relationship. It's there, very quietly, on the revenue website - no-one seems to know, which is why a good solicitor is invaluable. Incidentally, cp invalidates any will that predates it, so we need to make new ones. You guys must makes wills to ensure that your wishes are respected - I don't think a non-bio surviving partner has applied to adopt in the Irish system. I do lose sleep over it, while thinking that an involved father is a good thing for the children...

sorry for bad typing dd2, 9 weeks, asleep on lap

am in ireland too, btw

The thing is whoever the parents are, bio, adopted etc.....if they are decent, fair and loving to the child then they are good parents. Unfortunately, as we all know too many children in the world do not benefit from proper care.

As for the male/female role model thing, yes I do think it's important for children to have contact with male and female role models and they can of course be friends or family. That said if a biological parent is alive and suitable to be near children then of course the child should not be denied the chance to form a bond. It's just plain healthier for the child.

It doesn't matter if you are heterosexual or homosexual, it is often painful to watch your child being looked after even temporarily by someone you do not consider as a primary care giver. However, if you really love the child you have to put their needs first.

Personally I think grandparents should be given some right to have legal contact with the child as well. Children are best served with the support of families, personally my own extended family have been invaluable with helping me through my childhood and indeed supporting my own children.