Sad story re gay parents - what do you think?

[Nettee]

here

Don't know what the right answer is to this one can see all the parents' point of view. And such a shame the good friendship has fallen to pieces too. Not even sure what would be best for the little boy - a proper relationship with his dad or a stable family life with one home and two parents and a known biological father.

do you think that means that eggs trump sperm? they do in the surrogacy case you've outlined, i've read of fathers having to pay maintenance on children that they are not allowed to see because the relationship with the surrogate has turned so toxic.

actually i asked 'why?' and suggested a possible reason for treating the situation differently to the usual mn way of siding with the mother. not that you've seen this, because you shrugged and hid the thread.

I think your right Maryz.

I dont see that having 3 legal parents would be a bad thing .

The two mums could get support and maintenece from the dad . He could help childcare ,

I fail to see how this could be a bad thing.

Loads of kids have two homes . It initself is not proven to "damage" children , unlike parents at war with each other.

Put the child first every time , and there will not be a problem imo.

i can totally see why he would want a role in his child's life. i just think that in time it would have come to him, had he waited a bit. this way just seems so sad for everyone involved.

yy

BUT

Imagine before it happens, you are all grown up and sesnible about it etc

Then the lil bubba is borned...

And you fall in love. You don't want to see it for five hours, you want a r'ship.

BUT

They don't want him muscling in and being parental.

I don't know the answer

i just don't see how this situation is better than five happy exclusive hours a fortnight plus christmas plus family occasions plus best friendship with the bio mother, i guess. tbh i can't think who my kids see that often, either. their own grandma sees them when i'm around, mostly, and for roughly five hours a fortnight, but she's not headed for court.

ah yes right enough re 5 hours. still and all, it's roughly what my mother gets. and most of it is us drinking tea while the children play with my old toys.

yy mary, we x-posted.

of course. i just see it working so brilliantly with my friends now that the kids are 5 and 6, precisely because lips were buttoned when they were younger and toes were not tread on.

The hetero donor analogy doesn't work at all, unless the wife used her husband as a sperm donor and had a baby with infertile boyfriend, as donor in this case was married to one of the lesbian mums.

I find Aitch's standpoint the oddest, that he should forgo his role as father to keep the peace until the child actually asks him to suddenly turn from cool uncle to dad? Seems only to keep the wishes of the mothers all important, relegating both father and child to after thoughts.

Like it or not, a man a woman make a baby. I'm in favour of full equal rights for same sex parents, not extra rights to exclude and control a biological parent (male or female) because it doesn't suit their ideology.

do you really, paranoid? have you never played things a bit smarter so as not to end off having an argument from which it will be hard to retreat? he may well have the 'right' to be a father to this boy (this is rather what the court has to decide) but accessing that right by having poisoned his relationship with the mothers just seems a bit thick. of course as mary says, we don't exactly know what was poisoned and when, but i would always advocate being smart and playing the long game when it comes to children...

I do, I'm not being arsey I just find it really odd. If I was in the position of wanting to be a parent to my child and being forced into a much lesser role, there isn't a force on earth that would stop me fighting for it. Not in a million years would it occur to me to give up being a parent for the sake of keeping the other parents happy, because I'd begin to hate them anyway for keeping me from my child.

There is no long game when it comes to children. All the things you would miss out on while waiting, and its hard to build the same closeness later on. I think in all honesty you are downplaying the fathers role and feelings and wouldn''t be able to do what you are advocating he does. I know I couldn't.

Assumption that the father "poisoned" the relationship with the mother.

Whos not to say an equal assumption would be that the "mothers" manipulated the father into donation sperm , by making promises the knew they would not deliver .

None of us know what was actually agreed in the begining and to assume is just putting our own slant on things .

I hope the court decides in favour of the child .

Well, maybe he has got fed up with being allowed to visit when they say so!

He has visited at Christmas-whoop de fucking do!

Maybe he´d like his own Christmas with his own son?

see that all reads to me as being about you, PA, and less about the child.

and i'm not proposing that he ducks out of the child's life until later, btw, he currently has more access to the boy than my mother has to her grandkids (which seems to do neither any harm) and is welcome round the house, according to the mothers. also i think adoptive parents might be a bit upset at the idea that it's so horrific to gain full access to your child at four.

and regarding christmas... how much better would it be for all concerned to spend christmas together? is that not the ideal? honestly, it's like you've all gone amnesiac for the amount of miserable parents there are on here and on FB on christmas day.

No, its just from my viewpoint, since I'm me and not a child! I also think its by far in the best interests of the child to have proper contact with his father.

Granparents and parents are not analagous at all. And I am pretty sure that if you asked any adoptive parent who welcomed their child at four whether they would have preferred to got them earlier, I doubt you'd find one that said NO.

I'm finding your position harder to understand with each post. Mine is very straightforward: in the absence of sensible issues such as competency and safety, a child has the right to be cared for and loved by all of his parents. Thats pretty much it.

So 5hrs per fortnight plus he may visit at Christmas to keep the mothers happy?

He has asked for overnight/s plus holiday/s.

Hardly 50/50-so perhaps the mothers could have agreed to this & still kept Christmas with the three of them?

mine is much the same, PA, so i'm not sure why you're finding it so difficult. however, i would say that if the parents were being smart they would keep things amicable and out of court, because once you do that all bets are off. if you actually check All My Posts that's all i've said.

now the father might get what he wants (which may well be what the child wants) but in a thoroughly toxic atmosphere that his child might have to suffer for the rest of his life. whereas if he'd hung fire for a while, the child would have had more input and things would likely (i say this having seen this happen myself) have come round anyway...

am curious to know how many lesbian couples with involved gay fathers you all know? it's tough, and requires great sensitivity from what i understand, but it can totally work beautifully.

But if the mothers wouldn´t increase his contact now, how does he know that they ever would?