Soham Murder trial

[codswallop]

I am sure this must be indescribably Painful for the parents , But I was thinking in bed - what if I had been selected for that Jury service....

I am soooooo emotional and i reckon that this would seriously affect me for the rest of my life (not saying it wouldnt for others natch).

I know you cant get out of Jury Service But God - how would you cope?

Couldn't find a timeline but apparently (C4 news) MC knew about previous charge in 98, and then provided alibi in 99 (which appears to be true) so there may be a precedent for assumimg he was going to be 'fit up'. Still don;t believe she wouldn;t have had some doubts though - surely if someone is accused 3 times you would at least start to look at evidence to satisfy your own mind, and someone washing quilt cos of a 'nosebleed' seems v. dodgy to me.
Anyway, what I would like to know is, would anyone like MC to be classroom assistant in their childs class? I'm afraid I wouldn't, because I don't think she could ever be trusted to put the needs of the children first.

She assumed he'd had a woman in, berries - I don't think she had any idea that he had any sort of leanings towards little girls. Though he did tell her that one of the girls had been in the bedroom, didn't he...just another horrible thought that she didn't want to believe I suppose. Not sure about the classroom assistant idea - it sounded as if she got on well with the children but was just a bit over-matey with them.

btw Twinkie, wanted to say that it wasn't me that mentioned abusive violent relationships. I know how you feel about those and wouldn't want to upset you by bringing them up.

GladTidings, are you still unconvinced that he was a rapist? Would you rather brand all those women and children as liars than believe them? I believe them. It is obvious that they can't all have been lying when they said they were raped on totally separate incidents by the same man in the same way. They were all slight girls of 17/18. It is a fact that he liked sex with children as young as eleven and thirteen. Yes I do feel aggressive against rapists and those abuse children. Don't you? I am so horrified that so many women would prefer to believe Ian Huntley than take the word of many woman who all make (by coincidence?) the same allegation against him. I actually find it offensive that even now there are those who would prefer to call those women liars than victims.

Let's not get carried away....???? Oh, yeah, it really is getting carried away into a world of fantasy to believe that he could be a rapist, a nice bloke like that. I despair. No wonder it is so hard to get a conviction for sexual offences.

From an article in the Guardian today:

"Those close to Carr claim it was not until early this year that she came to believe he really had killed Holly and Jessica. They say she has become convinced that Huntley did try to sexually assault the girls, probably in their bedroom.

But if it is true that Carr refused to believe the truth, that is not to say she did no wrong. She may have lied to herself not just to protect a man she loved but also out of self-interest. She had always dreamed of being a teacher and came close to her wish when she worked as a classroom assistant in Holly and Jessica's school. She had also wanted a secure home and thought she had this with Huntley.

For the first time for years, her life seemed on track and it may be she was prepared to convince herself of Huntley's innocence to preserve her future."

um - aloha - who has said here that they don't believe he was a rapist?

Twinkie - I emphasise AGAIN.... SHE DID NOT THINK HE HAD KILLED THEM THEREFORE SHE DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS PUTTING THE PARENTS THROUGH IT ALL! Hindsight and all that! She HAS shown remorse, unlike IH.

Jeeeeeeeesus!

Its one thing to have an opinion Twinkie, but entirely another to just blank out parts of info for the sake of your own arguement.

Aloha - I never said that, I just mean that nothing has been proven..... so we all can't just assume! And it isn't a FACT that he liked sex with 11 yr olds..... it is speculation. I'm not defending him, I just hate all the "Mob rule" mentality.

I didn't know about the 10 yr old boy, so for that I apologise! Twinkie - I don't think that sort of flippancy about the CPS is very helpful! I'm sure there must've been a good reason why they didn't or couldn't charge him.

And he was 21 in 1995 when he started having sex with one 15 year old - yes her parents complained. A year later there was another one. In 18996 he was having sex with a 14year old. In 1996 there was another one, this time only 12. And once again her mother tried to get social services to intervene. Hailey Edwards was 11 when she met Huntley and he sexually abused her. It was reported to the police but they failed to take any action. Hailey, was, by sheer coincidence no doubt, a friend f his girlfriend. In 1998, a girl of 18 went to the police saying Huntley raped her. A month later another girl of the same age also said Huntley raped her - and threatened to kill her. A few months after that - in 1999, yet another girl went to the police saying Huntley had raped her. Well, so sue me, I believe that any half way intelligent person would conclude from this that Ian Huntley was a predatory paedophile and rapist. I think to believe otherwise in the face of the evidence is downright perverse, and frankly, an insult to his victims.

It's not 'speculation' the girl - now a woman - says so. To believe Huntley instead of her is very, very odd IMO.

The Grinch, Zebra and GladTidings both seem to consider calling him a rapist is somehow defamatory and unfair.

Well said aloha

This has nothing whatsoever to do with a 'mob rule' mentality, but everything to do with believing the word of four women and children against that of a double child murderer. Rape and abuse victims often suffer very much when they are disbelieved, and, in effect, branded as liars. They often describe this as being like another rape. The evidence is immensely strong. It is clear what he is and it provides, sadly, the motive for what may have seemed up until his conviction a motiveless crime.

I'll retire from this thread since Aloha has resorted to calling names. I'm obviously not halfway intelligent, and I'm perverse and by simply pointing out that he wasn't charged with anything like rape I am insulting the victims!

The FACT is what I believe is irrelevant. He wasn't charged..... a fact is a fact. I have NEVER once said I didn't think he had done it, merely that he hadn't been charged with those crimes. FWIW I DO think he raped them.... but I was stating facts. SHOOT ME DOWN WHY DONTCHA!

FFS ALoha - Hugely uncalled for attack!

And if it had been possible to charge Huntley with the three rapes in the same trial, he almost certainly would have been convicted and Holly and Jessica may have escaped their fate. After all, if you can be charged with two murders simulataneously (or indeed, many more, as the Fred and Rose West trial) why not for rape? It would definitely be in the interests of justice.

aloha, there were 5 under-age allegations, and 4 of them concerned girls who looked on him, then aged 20/21, as their boyfriend and refused to make a complaint against him. The Guardian today . I don't know where your 12 and 14 come from - the "girlfriends" were 13 and 15.

The indecent assault on the 11-yr-old sounds much worse but: "it came to the attention of social workers between August 1995 and July 1998. The alleged indecent assault was investigated by the police in 1998, but no prosecution followed." So it must have happened in 95 and the 3 years in between presumably made it hard to prove. And indecent assault can mean so many things.

There are a lot of young and young-ish men who have sexual relationships with girls much younger than themselves, sometimes below 16 - it doesn't make them predatory paedophiles though I suppose some may go on to become so. With hindsight his overall record was bad, but maybe not as bad as some others who don't go on to kill little girls.

If you think he did rape them then why do you persist in calling it 'speculation' and 'getting carried away' you said 'why scrape around for more dirt then there is'. If you thought he was a rapist and paedophile what does the 'scrape around' comment refer to?
Also I fail to see the relevance of the lack of criminal convictions? Of course he wasn't convicted - the cases never even went to court and now they never will. You don't need a criminal conviction when the evidence is staring you in the face. Can you imagine being Hailey, the eleven year old he attacked, and reading that she isn't believed even now?

BTW you did start it by calling me aggressive. And I do think any halfway intelligent person would see he was a rapist. And if you think he is, well, I fail to see the insult.

The Grinch, do you really have nothing better to do than spend your time defending a double child murder, rapist and paedophile? Louise Tinmurth was 12 when Huntley begain 'going out with her". He was 20. In May 1996 social services became involved when her mother became desperate about his sexual relationship with Louise. She was, by then, 13.
Janine Oliver was 14 when she had sex with Huntley. Again it was the following year that her mother also appealed for help from social services.
I'm sorry you seem to think this is normal or in any way acceptable behaviour.

Hailey Edwards was attacked by Huntley when she was 11. She kept the secret to herself for six months before she told her mother. The police were informed but no action was taken. She says, "Because Huntley wans't prosecuted, I thought noone believed me."

Oh Aloha - you were directing that at me at the time you posted that you didn't that I believed him to have raped someone. I don't think saying your posts were agressive was at all in comparison with calling you names like halfway intelligent and perverse??? Please! But if its reduced to "oh well you started it", then I am definitely bowing out.

What ever I believe..... the facts are the facts....... he wasn't charged, therefore I see it as speculation in the eyes of the law. That was my point!

I shouldn't have opened this thread again. I know what I believe and I know what I read.... and I don't need to be called perverse for trying to point out a fact.

BTW, rape victims do find it insulting when they aren't believed.

I totally see where aloha is coming from on this one. IH is an evil man who quite frankly deserves to be strung up (but that's another thread)and certain people on this thread seem to be looking for ways to defend him, guilty till proven innocent and all that. All Aloha is saying, and I agree, is that it was blatanly ovbious to most people what IH had done and I'm sure more allegations are still to emerge from other girls/women. In a case of such ovbious sickening evil, I, and others find it hard to swallow that some do-gooders find it within themselves to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has been given the benefit of the doubt in the past and look what tragedy that led us to.

FWIW - I think YOU are getting carried away.

And the scraping for dirt comment was regarding the 15 yr old girl he was supposed to have had consenting sex with when he was 18 (maybe wrong!!). Why concentrate on an allegation like that which I didn't think was child abuse, when he had been accused of MUCH worse crimes!!!!

No, I don't think it's "normal or acceptable" and I wish it didn't happen, but it frequently does. I haven't read any details, I know no names amd I'm not defending him.

I don't know why I keep arguing about it either - we clearly both have the same opinion of him - except that I am still defending Maxine Carr's position of what I believe to be ignorance of what he had done before she knew him.

Actually, I honestly think only a deeply stupid person would think he didn't rape anyone and it would be perverse to think otherwise. But you said you do think he is a rapist so you are clearly not stupid or perverse. But if you insist on feeling insulted despite your propensity to insult others, well, what can I say.

Aloha - Don't insult my intelligence..... I have been the victim of sexual abuse and didn't report it for that very reason.

Anytimie you want to stop personally attacking .... then feel free.

Northerner - DO-Gooders???? Suppose thats better than my usual label!

How about sorry?