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Soham Murder trial

432 replies

codswallop · 05/11/2003 12:04

I am sure this must be indescribably Painful for the parents , But I was thinking in bed - what if I had been selected for that Jury service....

I am soooooo emotional and i reckon that this would seriously affect me for the rest of my life (not saying it wouldnt for others natch).

I know you cant get out of Jury Service But God - how would you cope?

OP posts:
Northerner · 18/12/2003 15:32

Lets not take this out of context. The guy has been found guilty and will spend the rest of his days in a cell. Two little girls died and their families will never recover.

For god's sake why are we arguing?

GladTidings · 18/12/2003 15:34

I'm upset about the mudslinging. I think it was a bit harsh!.... on me.... not on IH!
But I agree Northerner.

GladTidings · 18/12/2003 15:39

Aloha - my propensity to insult others???? What is wrong with you, why are you doing this!

When???? I said your posts were agressive and they are.... and STILL are!

I don't see how that is insulting you.

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 16:09

I'm not apologising to you. Why should I? Read my posts. I said that anyone who looked at all the evidence, read the testimonies and examined the facts and still thought Huntley was innocent of rape and child abuse would have to be stupid and perverse. If you accept that he is a rapist etc, then by extension you are not stupid or perverse. Where is the insult? It seems to me that you are very happy to attack and attack and insult others (and you are still doing it, unless you mean aggressive as a compliment) and defend the utterly indefensible then suddenly adopt victim status and start demanding apologies. I'm rather tired of it. Huntley is in prison, yes, but IMO it is worth remembering his other victims who are still alive.

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 16:11

That 'poor me, say sorry' schtick is getting just a little tired, don't you think?

GladTidings · 18/12/2003 16:13

I'm not bothering to reply to you anymore.... you can't even admit when you are blatantly insulting someone... no I wasn't saying it was a compliment, which I think was pretty obvious.... if there was a rolling eyes smiley it would be inserted here * *.

Northerner - Back to what you said. Yes, the important thing here is that he was found guilty and has been jailed for life.

GladTidings · 18/12/2003 16:13

Whatever Aloha!
Just stop it!

dancingdoormat · 18/12/2003 16:16

sorry to butt in but I hope that the deaths of these two young girls will bring about a change in the way Social Services, the police, entire legal system and judiciary deal with these sorts of cases.
It is about time they were brought to boot for allowing a disgusting man like this in our society and dealing with children especially.

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 16:17

You love this routine don't you? How many times has it been now?

Forget it. He's clearly a lovely bloke. The girls are all liars and you are right. As always.You poor hard done by thing who never has a bad thing to say about anyone. Have a lovely Christmas and goodbye.

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 16:18

Clearly that was not in reply to you Doormat

Twinkie · 18/12/2003 16:26

Message withdrawn

GladTidings · 18/12/2003 16:26

Eh Aloha?
I was trying to have a debate! It's perfectly clear who is throwing a tantrum here!

I think you are bang out of order and you didn't like getting it pointed out to you....

Routine??

dancingdoormat · 18/12/2003 16:35

Will MC be given a new identity like Jamie Bulger's murderes because she is at risk from the public.
I wouldnt want her to, I think she deserves everything she gets and will get.

GeorginaA · 18/12/2003 16:43

I hesitate to get involved in this (and am donning my flameproof coat as I do so ) but I just wanted to say that I think you're all right

Yes, innocent until proven guilty - without those cases having gone through a proper court of law, we will never really know. We can probably make a damn good guess from the newspaper reports, but the media unfortunately isn't infallible and has its own agendas (selling papers). That said, I strongly believe that there should be a huge overhaul of the CPS to get more of these cases through and more convictions. Somehow we should be acting to make it a safer less intimidating environment for victims to speak out while still keeping to a minimium the distress caused to families by false accusations. I'm not sure there's an easy solution there, at all, but it does need to be seriously looked at.

"I think people who stand up for the rights of proven killers really need their heads testing."

I'm not sure people are. Once someone is convicted then absolutely the bastards deserve everything they get. On the other hand, I wouldn't want someone labelled as a paedophile and any future hope of work completely destroyed because someone once made a malicious accusation. I think people are getting confused between a general ethos of rights with letting IH off the hook - it's not. Again, I think the way forward is to look at getting more prosecutions through and accusations followed up properly. It's got to be in everyone's interest - if you've been falsely accused and it was taken to court and your name was completely cleared that has to be better than it never going to court and everyone thinking "did he, didn't he?" surely?

I'd like to stress that I don't think ANYONE is standing up for Huntley. What really does worry me about this case (and many others) though is that immediately everyone wants a scapegoat. It must be the authorities fault, it must be the system's fault, it must be the girlfriend's fault, it's xyz mumsnet poster's fault because they don't agree with what I'm saying.

Let's stop, calm down, put ourselves in a time out away from the computer if necessary but put the blame back squarely where it belongs - on Ian Huntley, the actual murderer.

Bozza · 18/12/2003 16:53

Absolutely and totally agree Georgina. Great post.

nerdgirl · 18/12/2003 17:06

Well done Georgina. Totally agree with you.

nerdgirl · 18/12/2003 17:07

Are you feeling a little hot in that flameproof coat yet?

bossykate · 18/12/2003 17:10

fantastic post, georgina, good for you.

BluStocking · 18/12/2003 17:11

Somewhere in our world is a little girl who may or may not ever know that IH is her biological father. Another victim of this horrible case.

(a gf who was pregnant when previous allegations were being made, and dumped him, and never allowed him to see the child)

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 17:26

GladTidings. Two girls are dead, and it's all about you - again. You know perfectly well what I mean about your 'poor me, everyone's having a go at me' routine. We've seen it before.

And no, I do not think you need a conviction in a court of law to say someone's clearly a criminal. The principle of innocent until proven guilty applies to the courtroom not common sense - are you saying that if someone isn't tried they must be considered innocent by everyone, despite any amount of evidence? Fred West was never convicted of anything, remember? Saddam Hussein has never stood trial either. It doesn't mean that Fred West wasn't a murderer or that Saddam didn't order the gassing of the Kurds. If anyone says they don't think Huntley is a rapists then they are basically calling his victims (who have waived their anonynimity to tell their stories) liars, and I find that deeply offensive. Oh, I'm sick of this. I never, ever thought I'd be attacked on Mumsnet for saying I believe the testimony of a child against a double child killer. Maybe it's not the place I thought it was.

hmb · 18/12/2003 17:34

Good point Aloha. Every one has a right to be considered to be innocent until proven guilty in Law. They are guilty or innocent before they are tried, during the trial and after they are tried. Their guilt or innocence is a matter of fact, of history, of reality. legally they are innocent until the verdict is giver, but reality is something else.

And before anyone misses the point, I believe in the legal right of a presumtion of innocence.

dancingdoormat · 18/12/2003 17:36

Georgina good post btw.But there is fault somewhere. I can understand after one allegation but for them to go on and on why where there no alarm bells ringing with the whole legal system (from the police to the CPS) and Social Services.
Surely the whole system needs an overhaul and a rethink.
Aloha I do agree with you.

Rae1973 · 18/12/2003 17:41

Doormat, it has been mentioned in the Telegraph today that MC could be out in as little as 30 days and yes she will probably get given a new identity, personally, I cannot see it being in this country though as too many people will know her face.

Saying that these people will be known worldwide now.

The thing that sickens me is that the taxpayers will yet again have to pay for this vile person to get another chance at life somewhere else, where, no-one knows she could do something similar again.

dancingdoormat · 18/12/2003 17:45

Rae I feel exactly the same way.
I am disgusted with the whole system.

alohappychristmas · 18/12/2003 17:53

I also believe in the legal presumption of innocence of course. And hmb is, of course, spot on. Innocence or guilt not purely the business of the courtroom. Plenty of innocent people have been found guilty of crimes and plenty of guilty people have escaped justice. It doesn't alter the fact that they did it or didn't do it.