Dale Farm Eviction

[niceguy2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750

It seems sanity has prevailed. Let's hope there are no more delays and the site is cleared ASAP

Sorry, "cops KICKING gypsies on the pavement".

The 90%/20% thing is on its own misleading. You have to look at specifics before you can draw any meaningful conclusions.

For example, if the applications from the traveller's have all been very unreasonable and obviously never going to get permission in the first place, then you'd expect a lot more to get rejected than if the rest of us who are probably asking for a small extension or a conservatory.

In addition, the use of batons and tasers on their own cannot be considered violence unless we look at what they were facing at the time. The protestor's there have hardly been peacefully resisting and you can see the violence for yourself. You can clearly see bricks being hurled, makeshift riot shields etc. If the police are using the tasers in self defence then that's acceptable.

I for one answered your post of 12.38. I've since been off having a life. Your point earlier about media manipulation is being proved by YOU. You are watching the press, and listening to 'trained human rights observers (and what's that code for exactly?). You aren't there and you can't see what's happening. As with the rest of your posts, you are only arguing half the point!

Glasnost I've not seen any evidence yet that those 5000 families even existed, certainly none that they were fleeing persecution and no applications for asylum from them. I'm pretty sure there's no law that says that wherever you fancy living today someone has to provide accommodation. That's what hotels and B&Bs are for.

As for these serious injuries can you link to information on that since I've not seen it. I trust you are not getting your facts from the hysterical protesters shouting about burning parliament?

Onager, I would trust to much if I was you!

:o

Lordy. Depths have been plumbed enough for one day.

How sad.

Mainly by you my friend.

Onagar, interesting use of the word 'home' there. The Travellers are for the most part British born and bred, so you can't be implying they are forrin...

'So the council should have removed them 10 years ago when they knew they were starting to build on the site instead of letting people settle and kids go to school. Why did they not do all this then and save themselves 18m in the process to put back into housing. It is illegal now and was illegal 10 years ago.'
The council instead decided that they would prefer not to have many Travellers in the Basildon area. They could do nothing about the Travellers living on the legal part of the site but had clearly made up their minds that that was enough Travellers in Basildon.

As a comment on Glasnost's post about the overall picture wrt Traveller site provision by LAs -- the attitude of Basildon DC is illustrative of the general trend and highly irresponsible wishful thinking that ends up costing taxpayers more rather than less in the long run.

A rational strategic plan would result in less taxpayer money being spent of course, but who wants to hear that people need to live somewhere and that their local council has chosen X area to develop a site? Unfortunately for all, the sort of whispering campaign that appears when the subject of the Travellers comes up makes it difficult for councils to convince communities. However, there are some LAs, like Plymouth, that have taken the bull by the horns -- here is their policy statement, with their plans for sites in areas they have identified as suitable.

This is the North Somerset Council page on Gypsy and Traveller services in N. Somerset. A rational and civic-spirited approach imo, with assessment of future accommodation needs as well as a discussion of the sort of support services that will be required (see the three full reports at the bottom of the page).

The links on the left of the page are interesting. Here is a quote from the 'Myths and Truths' section:
"...entry in the Encyclopaedia Britannica from 1954.
?The mental age of the average adult Gypsy is thought to be about that of a child of ten. Gypsies have never accomplished anything of great significance in writing, painting, musical composition, science or social organisation. Quarrelsome, quick to anger or laughter, they are unthinkingly but not deliberately cruel. Loving bright colours, they are ostentatious and boastful, but lack bravery.? Of course, we are talking about Travellers here, but stereotyping of Travellers occurs too.

I suppose my point there is 'where there's a will there's a way' when it comes to finding some sort of way to live with Travellers and Romany.

It takes gumption and leadership skills on the part of local politicians and planners to deal proactively with the issue of accommodating Travellers, but it is possible. That sort of leadership is sadly not in evidence at all in Basildon. I consider the history of the Dale Farm shenanigans there to be a mark of shame on the council therefore.

Meanwhile that bungalow is still in the back garden at my neighbour's house and the Daily Mail was dismayed that a poor lickle NHS worker was told to move out of her parent's shed.

The comments on the site agreed it was PC GORN MAD in those circumstances.

Yet the lack of planning permission is treated on the same level as selling babies at Dale Farm.

Double standards? Never!

There is definitely a double standard. The law allows for retrospective pp.

There is a sturdy two fingered attitude towards the planning authorities on the part of large swathes of the population in the UK. The result is the many questions on forums from potential house purchasers who have found features in the properties they are bidding for that are not mentioned on the plans and for which the council has no record of pp applications. Here's one example of many. You can even buy legal indemnity insurance to cover you if the council ever finds out about the extra bathroom or the extended kitchen on the house you have bought, if you think the extension was done within four years of the house going on the market. (Actually the usual advice is that the seller should buy it for the buyer to keep the sale process moving along smoothly.)

The planning process is so serpentine it has spawned a whole little cottage industry.

There's a difference between illegal and unapproved. Planning permission is a civil law matter, not a criminal one.

marking my place.

Here's a recent report on the eviction

Apparently there was one tasering incident and it is claimed that one person was batonned by the police. There appears to be a bit of controversy about whether tasering should ever be used in situations of public order. Home Office spokesman says it is not advisable ever, but the Essex police say otherwise.. Residents of the approved (let's not use the term legal) end of the site are irate that their section was overrun by police.

Apart altogether from the issue of where the residents will sleep tonight, there is clearly the unresolved matter of several evicted people who need access to an electrical supply for defibrillators and other medical equipment at the very least (running water would of course be nice too). Could this problem have been anticipated by Basildon DC?

There's a good deal of hair splitting by Basildon DC as to what exactly is going on here - apparently it is a site clearance now and not a forced eviction. There has also been a claim by Tony Ball that the Travellers have been offered brick and mortar alternatives to their Dale Farm homes but that they have turned down the offer. This is disingenuous in the extreme, and reveals what the Travellers have been dealing with over the years could not really be classed as good faith from the Council. I for one am not buying this sort of regrettable weaseliness.

The censorship on here's way out of hand. Out of here.

For those who are with the law breakers we soon see how fine you are with it all when they pitch up in your local park on in your children's school filed

Look they should have left and they threatened violence. Police have had no choice.

I'm glad it's happened, although deciding which is a greater evil - a group of people costing tax payers millions through appeals for their ILLEGAL site - or planning regulation, is difficult.

Ah that old chestnut. The mansions they all allegedly own in Rathkeale. Sad to see this raised yet again on a Traveller thread, but absolutely predictable. A few families are related to someone who owns a house in Rathkeale. Would you like it if your extended family all rocked up to your house wherever it is for an extended stay?

They do not for the most part live in houses in Ireland. The village of Rathkeale is virtually uninhabited. They live on sites and on laybyes.

It was £4 m upthread. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
And why not pay it? Cheaper than £18 m, for those of us who can do maths.

They are going to pitch somewhere, that is for certain. Whether it's somewhere near you or near me the only thing we can be sure of is that Basildon DC has dumped a problem in the lap of some other LA and that what they have done has not advanced anyone even one step forward in creating a civil atmosphere or is finding a rational solution to the issue. The issue being where will these Travellers stay, not 'who started it'.

Mathanxiety, wow, the papers were misinforming then, as they stated that some residents facing eviction had homes in Rathkeale, Ireland in the wife's maiden name, they did say that the site was owned and sold to them by the same man who owned or rented out the Dale farm site.

So where did you get your information and why the false reporting in the press?

Money well spent I say it sends a clear message that all councils will get these scallys out

If they had decided to allow them to stay it would set precedence and these people would be setting up shop all over the joint

Money well spent in my view to stop others thinking they can do he same and I am sure the local school,police and ss wil be glad to see the back from what I understand they treated the school as a drop in centre and the police were scared to enter on the farm it had become a lawless city

Because maths, it's not about the maths.

What do you think would happen if the council gave the traveller's £4million quid because it was cheaper to do so than evict them?

Another group of people, possibly other traveller's would then rock onto a piece of land, refuse to leave and expect the council there to also give them a few million.

It's blackmail and as I said earlier, you can't give in to it. Once you do, you invite a free for all.