Watch David Starkey on Newsnight now

[forehead]

What a bigot

SnoopDogg speaking Jafaican? You're 'avin a larf...

South London Slang might have its roots in Patois, but also utilises a lot of Rhyming slang, Mockney, Backslang, punning and wordplay. Bengali, Arabic and Sinhalese words (i.e. Machan, Wallad) are often used.

/pedant/

Why did we allow traditional White British culture to become branded as "uncool" while lesser cultures were allowed to be thought of as superior despite that patantly not being the case?

Why is there a BBC radio station dedicated to black music? Why is the name of it intentionally misspelt, presumably to appeal to a dumbed down youth who think it's cool to misspell words?

Bonnie what the hell is a 'lesser' culture?

What the fuck is a 'lesser culture'?

Bigots corner is thataway ---->

Dear all

I have not followed this thread, thoroughly. I do find myself agreeing with David Starkey. I do not believe he was racist, but he did point out some unpleasant and inconvenient truths. There was a wide spread of ethnicities involved in the riots and you cannot focus it on any one ethnic group. What does characterise these groups is wanting repect without reciprocating it - probably not even knowing what respect means!

Too many youth do speak with a Jamaican patois, but what of it as long as those talking can construct well-meaning and cogent opinions. The youths involved in the rioting seemed unable to do this. They did not have a point to make; they were all opportunistic thugs and thieves. No different than MPs (and expenses) and Bankers (and everything they have messed up).

I do not believe David Starkey was talking about emulating Jamaican patois, rather he was talking abouty the emulation of the street and gangter aspects of it that seem cool to the young.

It is very difficult to be blunt without provoking the "liberals and chattering classes". These would only be liberal until it affected themselves or members of thier families, directly.

We have spared the rod and spoiled the child for too long. I hope David Starkey's opinions up a wider debate - but I fear it will not happen.

No doubt I will be left reeling by an onslaught of criticism from the sociologists, social worked, guardianistas, other apologists et al, so let's start finding excuses to absolve those amoral rioters (miscreants) from their ghastly and ill-gotten deeds.

I don't think its bigoted to suggest that traditional british culture is superior to "gangsta" culture.

I think there was a moment there when he said David Lammy 'could be white' because of the way he sounds ok then

I am extremely irritated with this idea of 'talking' black. What the hell does that mean.? I have visited parts of the Caribbean and Africa and i can tell you that they speak better than many of the indigenous white population in this country.
Please remember that black people are not one homogenous group.
The riots have revealed the high level of ignorance with regards to black people in this country.
Bonnie...black people have their own station because of views like yours.

Tectime, i think that you NEED to read the thread.

forehead

I think to some people "talking black" means non-black people talking in an "Ali G" type caricatured way.

PS, apologies for the typos in my earlier post.

I'm shocked at some of the views on this thread. "Lesser culture"? Sounds suspiciously like the language of white suprematism to me.

I think so tectime. Also the young lad interviewed on news SE with his face covered up didn't seem to speak very clearly. I am sure people in the carribean speak nicely and behave well in schools. What has gone so wrong here.

what is traditional british culture?

i think wc protest is entrenched in whatever definition you want to give it.

It just shows how little we have moved on from certain white people understanding black people

I am black and often have difficulty understanding these kids this is not black talk its young chav talk I often have to call my son and ask him what they are saying and sometimes he is not even sure.

I can assure you in grenada they don't speak like yer you get me blood
And to be honest I have a white best mate who has no black people in her family her son dresses in tracksuits and speaks like he's from a bad home

Everything is sick or blam whatever that means this

Youth speak is a mixture of White, black and Asian counter culture even the word chav it comes from the white youth as they don't have council homes in jamaica

alemci any time any thing gose wrong its blamed on black people or immigrants so nothing ever gets sorted.

The biggest group of children failing at school are poor white boys

Many of those who were charged or arrtesed were white

Some of the areas that were looted were majority of white I mean your not gonna get many lacks in britsol but hay why let the facts get in the way of bigotry

Not you just in general

Being a Chav has nothing to do with "Council houses"

I could suggest that "Some" Black people have moved very little understanding White people.

Why can't people stop stereotyping FFS.

Apparently it means council home and violence just trying to point out this youth speak comes from all our young children black, white and Asian
David star key supposes it all comes from black patios I wanted to make the point that some of these phrase could not have come from "jamican patios" because they don't have those things in jamaica not to mention most of these children have never left their post code let alone been to jamaica.

But Jamaicans do live in England....maybe they coined the phrase here when they started living in council house ?

Maybe they didn't?

I really do object to this stereotyping of English people, and that includes Blacks/Asian origin people.

Personally I don't give a jot if someone wants to speak gibberish it's their life, but they are not going to end up with a decent career unless they have a crack at the Queens English in England.

'Chav' is a Romani word, means child or youth. The 'council house and violent' acronym was coined long after the word was in common parlance.

"Some of the areas that were looted were majority of white I mean your not gonna get many lacks in britsol but hay why let the facts get in the way of bigotry"
There are loads of black people in Bristol, what are you talking about?

There's nothing wrong with black people, it's black "gangsta" culture that is wrong.

organicgardener if you don't give a jot whats your point

What do you mean "What's my point?"

Didn't I state that I don't give a jot if someone can't speak English and can't get a job?

Good point Bonnielassie a point that people need to listen to if they are serious in breaking the cycle of poverty.

Starkey made it sound like street gangs are a black phenomenon that came to the Uk with the immigration of the past 40 years. That's what shocked me, that someone who calls himself a historian totally ignored history.

I learnt history abroad in a country not sympathetic to the Uk and we learnt of the British as always having been a violent and warring nation. Of course the views were laced with exageration but you cannot say that the UK doesn't have a long history of street crime and gangs. Just search in Amazon books for "gang history" and you'll get history books listing a couple of hundred of years worth of gangs.

There's always been criminals, but normal kids didn't always act like criminals, that is the problem.