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Julian Assange, wikileaks and these rape claims

224 replies

sherby · 03/12/2010 21:28

I have just read the basis of the two rape claims against him.

How is it possible to issue a warrant for rape charges against him? Even going by the womens statements it isn't rape, there is no 'non-consensual' sex.

Am I missing something here or does it stink to high heaven?

OP posts:
genXmum · 07/12/2010 13:23

Hilary Clinton might not have personally written the cable(s) but it's her policy. Ultimately the buck stops with her.

Umm, not her policy. That would be owned by her boss. The buck stops with him.

I'm enjoying how this is playing out. I don't think Assange has much to lose by facing the charges in Sweden. He had to come out of the woodwork sooner or later and the charges in Sweden is such a red herring.

So far, no seriously damning leaks coming out, just confirmation of what everyone assumes anyway with some juicy tidbits. This feels like a big spy thriller waiting for the climatic revelation that will explain everything and gives us all the instant gratification we all crave in our internet age!

chibi · 07/12/2010 13:27

on the plus side we now know how to get police to bother investigating rape/charging men with rape instead of no criming it

next time just say your assaulter know some dubious shit about the ambassador to costa rica and he is prepared to release it

ha fucking ha Angry

Miggsie · 07/12/2010 13:35

yes, it is depressing...if the man who assaults you turns out to have the ability to embarass powerful nations he will be chased across international borders, anyone else: get stuffed. "We all know London Taxi drivers would never rape anyone..." said F Bloggs, for the 85th time that year.

DuelingFanjo · 07/12/2010 15:37

worth a read maybe

might have been linked to already. not fond of the tone used but the article/'evidence' is quite interesting.

AbsofLatkes · 07/12/2010 17:08

What I don't get is why all these Western governments are freaking out so much. I haven't seen a single thing in the leaks that has been a show stopper - maybe it's because of my work I encounter a lot of this stuff anyway, but I really haven't been shocked by anything (more amused by the dispatch on Gadaffi and his busty Ukrainian nurse). They're making themselves look bad by pressurising websites to shut wikileaks down, and should these charges turn out to be trumped up/exaggerated, again they'll lose credibility.

There was a good article in the Guardian about it today.

MrsGuyOfChristmasBorn · 07/12/2010 19:09

nzshar - agree.
'Rape' is rightly a very emotive word as it is indisputably a shocking crime.
These two women have done a massive disservice to genuinely raped women everywhere by claiming that during this bizarre weekend they were 'raped'.
I saw Dittany pop up a few weeks ago on a thread trying to convince a woman she had been raped, whe the poor woman was only regretting a consensual one-night stand.
Just because you regret it afterwards (who hasn't ever done that?) or, as in this case, are aggrieved that he was shagging someone else the same weekend without your knowledge, does not make it rape.

Niceguy2 · 07/12/2010 20:33

Absoflatkes, it's what's not been released which is what's worrying them.

The stuff released is allegedly tame.

I don't understand how the allegations are rape. It was just on Sky News that for one woman he coerced her by forcing her legs open and violated her sexual integrity by not wearing a condom!?! Either it's rape or it's not. What does the condom have to do with it?

The second he started to have sex with her when she was asleep? How does that work then? My GF is a deep sleeper but I think she'd notice if I tried to climb on top of her. She'd definitely notice if I stuck it in! I would prob end up being a eunuch shortly after too!

And as for the Swedish prosecutor saying she's had no pressure....well she would say that wouldn't she!

LeninGrad · 07/12/2010 20:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TwoIfBySea · 07/12/2010 21:07

They've made a bit of an error allowing this to go on for so long though. Surely he should have committed "suicide" or had some fatal accident before the documents came out.

Like the title on the Daily Mash - Assange Escapes From Police Down A Flight of Stairs. Head first and hands bound no doubt.

LadyBiscuit · 07/12/2010 21:12

Niceguy2 - I was raped when I was asleep. I did wake up and the rapist did get off me when I started screaming at him but he still raped me.

LeninGrad · 07/12/2010 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

edam · 07/12/2010 22:34

It does all come across like an episode of Spooks. But as Dittany said, it's entirely possible that several governments are playing dirty and that Assange is also someone who assaults women. Won't know the answer to the second until the legal process has ended.

I'd always assumed the Swedes were a right-on nation who would not be party to any skulduggery - does anyone know whether the Swedish state has been accused of collaborating with dodgy stuff done by other governments? I know we let the US use British airspace for kidnap and torture flights, and air bases on British sovereign territory, but I thought the Swedes were better than that.

Niceguy2 · 07/12/2010 22:34

Fair enough ladyB. Guess you'd have to be in a DEEP sleep.

Something just stinks here. Didn't the swedes originally throw the claims out then later change their minds?

LadyBiscuit · 07/12/2010 22:36

I'm not saying that these claims aren't bogus - I think something stinks to high heaven here. But it is possible to rape a woman while she's asleep unfortunately (I don't know if I was drugged - I had only drunk 1 1/2 pints :( )

edam · 07/12/2010 22:37

niceguy - suggest you take a minute to think about what 'asleep' means. It means you aren't conscious. You are vulnerable. You aren't in a position to fight anyone off. I should imagine waking up to discover someone is raping you is horrific.

Nickiename · 07/12/2010 22:50

I think the fact that us pressure has stopped amazon hosting his website, paypal, visa, mastercardand the swiss banks and more from taking donations for his defence while the us calls for him to be killed
A. Does make some of suspect that the revival of the always muddy and previously dismissed charges are strongly politically motivated. Us supermax prisons are hellish places that violate all human rights. I feel very scared for m assange.

notjustapotforsoup · 07/12/2010 22:58

If you are asleep, you can't consent. Do we have to go through that again?

dittany · 07/12/2010 23:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsAllaBitDeathlyQuiet · 08/12/2010 00:09

Well done for trying Cote!

StuffingGoldBrass · 08/12/2010 01:00

Hmm. I have an open mind on this as I am inclined to think that if the governments wanted to discredit JA, a more effective way would have been to accuse him of running a child porn ring with his various computer skillz.
(I am not suggesting in any way that JA is or has ever been a child abuser or a paedophile).
But I am also a bit boggled about how this thread suddenly diverted into slagging off Sarah Palin and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

TrailMix · 08/12/2010 02:18

Dittany, I am also amazed by the number of people who have immediately assumed that the women are lying or the charges trumped up. It is sexist and shocking. He is - absolutely - innocent until proven guilty, and in Sweden prosecutors will need to convince a jury of his guilt. Given that conviction rates (at least in the UK) for sexual assault and rape are so very, very low, then if it's a set-up they really should have faked some other crime.

nooka · 08/12/2010 03:29

I didn't see SkyNews but if the charges are that he a) had sex with someone who was asleep and b) with someone who he had to force in order to penetrate then of course that's rape. You can't ask someone asleep if they'd like to have sex with you, and if you have to use force then it's fairly clear that the other person does not want to have sex with you. If that's his defense then he's basically admitting he raped them, if it's the prosecution then it's simply a description of the rape allegations.

I agree with dittany that this is all quite convenient is to some extent irrelevant. He either raped or he didn't (and not just he one woman either). There are other people who are involved with Wikileaks, it's not a one man operation, and if he is found guilty and sentenced that doesn't mean that the site will close or that the leaks will be discredited. There are plenty of other ways that are being tried to do that (the former at least).

Xenia · 08/12/2010 08:12

We don't really know yet. Neither woman had realised the other was seeing him that weekend. There was no violence. A condom fell off. The women met the next day by chance (as they'd both been at his talk a few days before) and for some reason exchanged their sex stories and then they went together to the police. I am not surprised the first Swedish prosecutor did not think there was enough evidence to prosecute on but we'll see.

claig · 08/12/2010 08:59

I haven't been following the story. But, is Assange some kind of millionaire? Where does he get his money from? Where does the wikileaks organisation get their money from? Who is paying for it all? How does Assange get access to all these top lawyers?