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Rotweillors

316 replies

reptile · 31/08/2010 10:45

What I can't understand (re the recent case in Dundee of a small girl being mauled by 3 rotweillors) is why we can't have a law limiting the number of these dogs people are allowed to own. I'm a dog owner, but why does anyone need/want 3 dogs, let alone rotweillors.
It would be so easy to police, rather than going on a case-by-case basis, if you had to have a license for your dog, and, in the case of dangerous breeds, had to prove your case for owning more than one (or even just one IMO).

OP posts:
LadySanders · 31/08/2010 13:13

i find all those large/fighting type dogs very unpleasant - there are lots of them around where i live including several dogue de bordeaux which have huge jaws and could take a baby's head off - not only are they not muzzled but lots of owners walk them without a lead... i pull all my kids away and cross roads to avoid them. of course it's down to the owners but even the best trained dog may get rattled by an unpredictable small child...

Pootles2010 · 31/08/2010 13:38

Nancy - I'm probably missing something here, but isn't that because a jr can't seriously attack a child - rather yap annoying and nip at ankles?

Nancy66 · 31/08/2010 13:41

yes, probably. Plus most people could fight off a JR - which, by default, makes them far less dangerous - even thought they're nasty, yappy little fuckers

PerpetuallyAnnoyedByHeadlice · 31/08/2010 15:17

of course the owner is going to say it was out of character and they are always fine with his own kids. and hes got to say how sorry he is etc Hmm

he can hardly say they've always been aggressive to his own kids but he felt it was ok to let them out on their own

why were they out on their own anyway?
this is a danger in terms of causing RTAs never mind attacking people.

why does it happen so much?

seashore · 31/08/2010 15:25

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to say, keeping dogs like this should involve proven training skills. It should be like driving, the person should have to show the commitment to owning these dogs by doing a training course with their dogs aimed at a cert and licence.

Everyone knows it's not the dogs but the owners which are the problem so why not do something about it?

morethanyoubargainfor · 31/08/2010 15:32

I think something should be done but i also believe you will always get the odd few that decide they are above the law and how would you police anything like that. I would do anything if it meant i would keep dogs and as much as i would love to say my dog will never hurt you I can't be 100% sure of that so therefore would never say it.

They are placid and all that bu tif they ever did attack a person they would be destroyed without question but i know lots of people who own dogs but don't shre my thought. My DH was bitten very badly about 4 months ago by a dog we had looked after for someone one day a week for 18 months. It was totally out of character for him, but i instantly called the owner to remove him and told him exactly what had happened and he just laughed it of saying his dog must have been having a bad day Hmm. That dog is still walking around today and my DH still has the wounds visable Shock.

Ephiny · 31/08/2010 16:19

I wouldn't have minded having to get a certificate or licence as a dog owner - when you get a rescue dog you have to go through quite a lengthy process of registration/interviews/home visits etc anyway before they decide which dogs (if any) they'd be happy for you to take home.

It might be good if there was a similar process for everyone, as it is anyone can buy a puppy from a breeder or just off Gumtree or something, with no questions asked about what they want it for, whether they know how to look after it or if they're a responsible person fit to be in charge of animals.

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/08/2010 19:51

fixed for you :)

FallingWithStyle Tue 31-Aug-10 12:13:06
They are vile, ugly looking things.

Incredibly selfish to put your wants above the safety of everyone else.

Of course its a fact that any child can attack, but not all children can be stopped due to their size and strength.

Ant parent who says they'd be able to haul their child off another person/child is lying. So how can you justify having one?

Also I'm sick of hearing "its not the child, its society/school/peers"...what bloody difference does it make to the person getting attacked?

And please prove that every child sttack results from a parent, truth is you dont know but its an easy way of dismissing other peoples concerns over your foul, thuggish "kids".

Vallhala · 31/08/2010 22:49

My God there are some ignorant opinions being expressed as "fact" here. If the views like these weren't responsible for the deaths in pounds of thousands of harmless, friendly, healthy young dogs each year they'd be laughable. If we replaced the word "Rottweiler" with "Jamaican" all MN would be up in arms, citing prejudice, generalisation and gross stupidity, and rightly so.

Why do people own three dogs? People like me, you mean. Because we like them. Because they need homes - one of mine is a long term foster dog. Two of the three are... lock your children up... German Shepherds. Because most of us are responsible owners and our dogs are family pets and NOT dangerous. Nothing in Law or in the opinions of the experts - KC, rescue, responsible breeders - states that they are. Thanks for calling so many of my Rott owning friends and family thick and scum. Hmm

Oh, and being ugly in your opinion does not make for a dangerous dog nor should it preclude responsible people from owning them. Apply that to humans and there would be justification in ridding society of an awful lot of our own species!

Additionally, that a dog attacks sheep (or for that matter is dog aggressive), as terrible as that is, is not indicative of a dog which is human aggressive. The two traits may be seen together, just as a man might be violent towards other men and women, but in the majority of dogs who are other animal aggressive this is not the case.

I know of gentle GSDs who live peacably with kids and cats (mine included) and snappy, stroppy Jack Russells. Some dogs are aggressive, there's no argument there. But they are so because of who they are, not what they are. If an act of aggression occurs, blame the deed, not the breed. After all, we don't castigate all men because some rape, or all Canadians because some drink-drive, do we?

So why am I angry when I'm not a Rott owner? Because, as I said, ignorance such as that which is seen here in the main proliferates fear and yet more ignorance and it costs lives. It causes dogs to be thrown into the streets, abandoned in pounds and sent to rescue, many of which, like the RSPCA, DO NOT have a no-kill policy and will PTS a healthy, friendly dog because no bugger will home him, thanks to mis-information on the breed and lack of genuine knowledge and experience.

As I said, I'm the owner of three dogs, two of whom would probably be feared and rated as dangerous by many of those on here.

I'm also a foster carer for dogs.

I'm a dog walker.

And I volunteer hands on for a no-kill rescue where I handle and interact with up to 80 of various breeds, including Rotts, SBTs and other bull breeds. In fact, one of their Rotts is a particular favourite, a dog which allowed me to manhandle him when he was paralysed by illness without so much as a growl.

More to the point, I'm an independent network rescuer. I have spent the past few years getting dogs into the safety of no kill rescue when they have been dumped into pounds, where without people like me they can be and so very often are killed either after seven days if they are strays or immediately if they are surrendered to the pound by the owner.

Healthy dogs. Young dogs. Friendly dogs. Innocent dogs. Some as young as eight weeks old.

I spend hours of my own time doing this, 365 days a year. Yes, I do mean on Christmas day too. I've sat up until 4 and 5am over the run up to Christmas, week in, week out, trying every rescue I know of to take just one dog out of hundreds, two would be a miracle, from pounds across the country.

I've cried rivers of tears, I still now never fail to be amazed at the depths of human cruelty and depravity towards these dogs... nor at human ignorance. There have been times when I have just wanted to answer threads like this with a string of expletives.

But I won't, because I won't let myself or those dogs down, nor will I sully the reputation of rescue. I won't ever give anyone the chance to say, "See? I told you so! Thick scum!".

Instead I'll write a long post, fuming as I do so, to ask you to look at the Deed Not Breed website and see how flawed the Dangerous Dogs Act is and how evil it is. You don't believe me and you think that if a dog is impounded it must be fair and just? Google "Save Lennox".

But moreover, I'm going to be bloody arrogant here and say something I've itched to say many times when this subject comes up and have so far just about resisted.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Go do what I do. Read a bit about my experience on Pets, where I have helped with advice and far more practically on and off the forum. Go and work with these dogs that you consider "dangerous" just because of their breed or looks. Handle them as I do. Sure, you'll meet bad ones. And many of those bad ones are the result of bad training or cruelty. Sometimes both. You'll meet the other side too, the huge, huge majority which are just dogs who have done nothing wrong, except perhaps be a Rottie, a Staffie or an AmBull and be waiting at the gate of rescue, hoping that one day someone will see beyond the headlines and beyond their looks and offer them a home. These are the dogs which never make the headlines, there are thousands of them in rescue across the country right now. You only hear of the rare, terrible stories as "Dog wags tail and plays with 5 year old" doesn't sell newspapers.

I don't profess to be an expert. I don't profess to be the best or the only rescuer on MN. But I do say this:

Come back to me when you have my experience of dogs, when you have walked that mile in my shoes and then put up an argument against any dog because of his breed or looks alone.

Because at the time of typing this I don't think any of those who have expressed the damaging opinions on here are arguing their cases on anything other than just that... opinion.

ThatVikRinA22 · 31/08/2010 22:56

val. i think i love you.

seashore · 31/08/2010 23:00

We humans really need to sort out our relationship with the pets we choose, dogs being top of that list, they have been badly let down, that is why strong breeds (instead of naming them dangerous breeds) should involve training between owner and a professional.

Goblinchild · 31/08/2010 23:04

I'm not meaning to upset you valhallah, but it's a genuine question that I can't see an answer to.
People like me don't buy or acquire dogs and dump them. We don't have them in unsuitable homes, or keep untrained and unhappy canines.
The people who are doing this are those who like dogs and want to have one or two or three.
So what can you do to stop dog lovers from creating an environment where thousands of dogs end up killed?
Those of us who dislike dogs aren't the main problem in my opinion.

pissedrightoff · 31/08/2010 23:07

Val I was wondering where you were.

Was about to post but you've said it all really.

As an aside, I've been told that the owner of the dogs has had them put to sleep.

FallingWithStyle · 31/08/2010 23:12

It's simple - could you physically restrain your dog if it (for whatever reason) attacked somebody?

If not, then it's irresponsible and selfish to have it as a pet.

cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:13

Well said, Vallhala.

I shouldn't have opened this thread. I only did so because I am a pedant at heart, and the ridiculous spelling mistake drew me in.

As well as being a pedant, I am a Rottweiler owner. I have two. We bought the second, not because we are thick scum, but because Boydog is a particularly friendly dog who thrived on contact with other dogs.

I am a strong believer in punishing the deed,not the breed. What happened to the little girl in Dundee is a tragedy, but the result of irresponsible dog ownership. In my experience, Rotties are steady, gentle, and intelligent. Yes, you have to be prepared to put the work in, but when you do you reap the rewards.

As a result of our hard work, we have two well-trained, friendly dogs. They have always been socialised with other dogs, and so react well when they are approached on their walks. Both have been attacked by other dogs and did not retaliate. I have a two year old who adores them both, and because of the training we have done since they were puppies, they are both happy to be cuddled and played with.

You CANNOT define an individual dog just because of its breed. Yes, Rottweilers are powerful, and it is for this reason that Rottweiler attacks are always reported when an attack by a smaller dog would not be deemed newsworthy. In the wrong hands they can be dangerous, and I agree wholeheartedly with people who suggest that a licence should be introduced. Responsible owners are vilified because of the actions of the less responsible.

My dogs are not status symbols. Neither are they ugly and vile (see photo on my profile). My husband and I are not thick scum. They suit our lifestyle, and are happy family members. When we went on holiday we left them with the police dog handlers where we live (forces). We came back and were told that a group of disabled children went on a visit to the section and it was our dogs that they (professional dog handlers)let out for them to stroke/play with.

So, OP, not that I need to justify my dog ownership to you, but that is why I want Rottweilers.

Ripeberry · 31/08/2010 23:17

Go and watch the film ' Marmaduke', even there the Rottie is the bad guy with no chance of redeeming himself.

I just think all large dogs should be muzzled by law whilst out on the streets.

MmeLindt · 31/08/2010 23:17

On my way to bed but just wanted to post this quickly.

I live in Switzerland where there are very strict rules governing dog ownership, particularly those classed as "dangerous dogs".

From what I have heard and seen over the past two years, and heard from the vet who did the dog training, regulation simply is not effective as it is not enforced.

seaturtle · 31/08/2010 23:18

Good post Valhallah.

cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:21

"Go and watch the film ' Marmaduke', even there the Rottie is the bad guy with no chance of redeeming himself."

Ripeberry, that is ridiculous. Even if I was going to take you seriously before, you have just undermined any credibility your posts might have had with that statement. Marmaduke is a FILM. A comedy. For children. Go elsewhere for your facts.

And FallingWithStyle. I have a toddler. If I were not entirely sure that I could restrain my dogs if necessary they would not be in my house. Last summer the heaviest of the two had heatstroke - I carried her into the vets under one arm, holding the baby in the other. I am their mistress, they obey me, and if I needed to I would have absolute physical control over them.

MmeLindt · 31/08/2010 23:22

Valhalla
You may be interested in this, my blog post about the Swiss regulations.

ThatVikRinA22 · 31/08/2010 23:23

i dont think there is a way of legislating stupid people.

its stupid people that cause these attacks. and there are just too many idiots out there. they own dogs.
cars.
guns.
not all at once and not necessarily in that order.

Quattrocento · 31/08/2010 23:25

Why is every second dog-turning-vicious news story about rottweilers?

Because if it's not the breed, it's the people who own them

MollysChambers · 31/08/2010 23:29

The attack on the girl in Dundee was utterly horrific. She would be dead if her incredibly brave grandmother had not fought those dogs off.

OP -I believe that there were two dogs involved, not three.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm afraid I find it hard to feel much sympathy for those defending the rights of the dog at the moment.

BTW - the owners youngest child is one. Hmm Would he have had these dogs around a one year old if he had any reason to suspect they could do something like this? I bloody hope not. But if not then that means it really was out of the blue. Either way it seems irresponsible.

Ripeberry · 31/08/2010 23:31

You are such a charmer cryhavoc Grin Don't you understand sarcasm?

All you dog lovers need to cool it, there are good owners and bad owners, but they all have a responsibility to control their dogs at all times.

Muzzling in public is the only way for large breeds....end of.

FallingWithStyle · 31/08/2010 23:34

Cryhavoc - you could physically stop two Rottweilers who went on the attack?

I'm sorry, I don't believe you.

I'm sure you honestly believe that your authority over the dogs would be enough to stop them, but common sense tells me that a dog agitated enough to attack is likely to behave in a way that you - even as the owner - cannot predict.