My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

News

Rotweillors

316 replies

reptile · 31/08/2010 10:45

What I can't understand (re the recent case in Dundee of a small girl being mauled by 3 rotweillors) is why we can't have a law limiting the number of these dogs people are allowed to own. I'm a dog owner, but why does anyone need/want 3 dogs, let alone rotweillors.
It would be so easy to police, rather than going on a case-by-case basis, if you had to have a license for your dog, and, in the case of dangerous breeds, had to prove your case for owning more than one (or even just one IMO).

OP posts:
Report
cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:36

I do my best, Ripeberry...

Sorry if I missed the sarcasm. I get very defensive about Rottweilers, and find myself leaping to their defence a lot.

Report
MmeLindt · 31/08/2010 23:39

PDF about the incidence of dog bites in Switzerland in 2008. Apologies, it is in German but if you look down to pg 11 you will find a list of all dog bites. Both vets and doctors are required by law to report bites so it is a pretty complete list. The Swiss are generally very law abiding and report bites.

As you can see the breeds that bit most often were Labrador, retriever, terrier, alsatians... Rotweiler (under are far down the list). Obviously the statistic is somewhat skewed as the first few breeds are popular ones here but it gives a general idea.

Interesting also that the pibull/ American bull terrier kind of dogs are right at the bottom of the list, possibly because they are becoming rarer.

Report
Vallhala · 31/08/2010 23:40

Vicar Blush. It's a shame that the law no longer allows the Police to deal with strays if they all took your view.

Hows that progressing, btw?

Seashore, I couldn't agree more.

Goblinchild, it's a multi-faceted problem. Not all of us with more than one dog are wrong 'uns either! In fact, ime, with the exception of puppy farms, idiots who let their dogs breed and then chuck the pups in pounds/rescue and breed-to-fight types the majority I see in pounds and rescue are lone dogs. Certainly not all of those are dumped/strays, it depends on the area but many, sometimes the majority, come along as a result of marital breakdown, homelessness, those unprepared for the commitment or those who have a baby and decide that they no longer want a dog.

What we can do is neuter, first and foremost. Then microchip and abide by the law which demands dog tags on collars to give the optimum chance of a lost or stolen dog finding his owner and not a pound. Stolen dogs may be dumoed by the theif if he is not what they wanted him to be or publicity of the theft makes him too hot to handle but often they end up counties away and/or dog wardens and pound staff, even if they get notice of a stolen dog, don't recognise him by the owner's description. One man's Lab cross is another man's retriever cross and if the pound only has the owner's written/verbal description the dog may never be identified without a chip.

We can spread the word of the fate of pound dogs and discourage people from letting a dog have her first season before spaying or letting her have a litter. Have a look at this. It's in Ireland, which is how I first got involved in rescue as an English resident, getting the dogs into UK rescue. I GUARANTEE you that this is nothing unusual, here as well as in Ireland. The only difference is that over there dogs have just 5 days between being taken in as a stray and being PTS. Here they have seven BUT I have known English and Irish pounds to break that law.

We can alert everyone to the fantastic advice and help of DOGLOST if a dog is lost or stolen and tell all our dog owning friends and family NEVER to leave a dog unattended, even in a garden, as dog theft is rife.

We can rescue rather than go to a breeder and change the perception of rescue.
A dog from a reputable and responsible rescue will be assessed, neutered, vaccinated, microchipped, matched to the new owner and vice versa via a homecheck, bringing with him a lifetime's support and an agreement that the rescue will take the dog back should the owner not be able to keep him, even if that's in 10 years time.

Rescue dogs are by no means ALL strays and many come from family homes with a history on their child-friendliness, behaviour, cat tolerance and so on. IME many people think that rescue is full of unknown, unassessed strays alone and for that reason avoid them and go to breeders.

We can acquaint ourselves with what makes a good breeder and what is a puppy farm, not just via the Kennel Club but by talking to/reading about Many Tears rescue and the A Dog's Life campaign run by Moreen (Mo) Davie.

We can campaign for tighter laws on breeders - atm you have to be breeding a heck of a lot imho to be obliged to register with and be inspected by a local council or governed by law and this is WRONG and promotes irresponsible breeding, often irresponsible sales, unhealthy dogs and just too many of them in a climate where we... and yes, it is WE, for we all pay taxes to the council to run the pounds which kill dogs in their thousands... just have too many dogs.

And, finally, just for the moment, we can change the perception of what constitutes a dangerous dog and look beyond the breed. The majority of dogs in pounds and rescue are SBTs or SBT crosses and so often I hear "They're dangerous, I won't let my DC go to MILs house because she has a SBT" or "I want a dog and am a good owner but I won't have a SBT as they are aggressive", yet it's the minority, the DEED that is bad, not the breed. SBTs are recommended by the KC as family pets, one of, IIRC, only two breeds which get this accolade from them.

PRO, I found this by chance, checking ip on my thread on here about what people's perception of the RSPCAs powers are. Am miffed that so few have answered but it seems it's a bloody good job I did wander over here, for the dogs' sakes at least.

Now... has anyone walked a mile in my shoes? Anyone want to try?

Rescue is crying out for fosterers, fundraisers, homecheckers, transporters, kennel hands, dog walkers and the like. Wink

Report
MollysChambers · 31/08/2010 23:42

I'm not sure that licensing would work. If we're talking about a certain type of dog owner then they'll not be tripping down to the PO for a licence will they? The people that will will be the reponsible dog owners, surely?

The doggie lovers may not like this but am going to suggest it anyway . Why not make it illegal for dogs to be allowed in public places without a lead? Friends of mine moved overseas and had to do this with their dog. Were worried as dog used to being able to run free (in fields etc) but soon got used to it. Not an issue at all to them now.

Report
cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:43

Yes.

I am careful, and aware when I am walking with them. I assess a situation before I take the dogs into it, and am always engaged with them so I would know if they were agitated or becoming so.

Their leads are always looped over my wrists and held in a way that they would have to
drag me with them IF they became aggressive. I'm not huge, but sturdy enough that this would stop them if necessary.

But you won't believe me, obviously.

Report
Goblinchild · 31/08/2010 23:47

'Rescue is crying out for fosterers, fundraisers, homecheckers, transporters, kennel hands, dog walkers and the like'

Perhaps every potential dog owner ought to have to undergo a period devoting time to one of these activities for 6 months.
If they haven't got the time, they won't have enough time for a dog either. They should have to sign up to compulsory dog training and handling sessions.
Before we got our rescue cat, my children helped out at the local shelter for around 6 weeks, so they knew what they were getting into.

Report
MmeLindt · 31/08/2010 23:48

Lisencing won't work because you ban or regulate say 5 breeds of dogs that are randomly picked out as being "dangerous".

So the guys who want a dog like this go out and get a different dog, abandoning their Rotweiller or Staffie. Or they buy a cross breed and train it to be aggressive. How to police that?

Report
Vallhala · 31/08/2010 23:49

Me too cryhavoc, we'd look like twins if we met on a dog walk! (Mine are a mad, energetic 3yo GSD, a foster GSD, both of whom are pretty big and a Lab x). The one I have to watch with certain male visitors who are not dog friendly, such as workmen, I don't invite the company of dog hating friends, as he was abused from pup to 2 years old by a man, is my LAB CROSS, and NOT either of my German Shepherds!

So what does that do to the "dangerous breeds" theory?!

Report
FallingWithStyle · 31/08/2010 23:51

So your Rottweilers have no time off-lead?

Report
cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:53

Vallhala - people always recognise me as 'the lady with the Rottweilers'. I have quite a name for myself on the camp where we live, and the village we use, as the woman seen daily wandering the streets pushing the big three-wheeled buggy with a Rottweiler at either side.

I fancied a GSD when we were first looking. Boydog won me over though - he was (and is) beautiful.

Report
Vallhala · 31/08/2010 23:54

^Goblinchild*, I like that idea.

Problem is ime, we do get some eejits applying for rescue dogs. There are some people, the minority but still gasp-worthy, who you just wouldn't want near your rescue's dogs!

The tales I could tell... the guy who wanted to adopt a SBT "to breed with my Staffs cross", the family who had just taken a pup to rescue as they "couldn't be doing with his weeing and chewing", those who work out of the home 8 hours a day... erm... don't call us, we'll call you!

Report
ThatVikRinA22 · 31/08/2010 23:54

the thing is, all the legislation in the world would only ever affect law abiding dog owners.

a law to keep dogs on leads. great idea. where was the owner when the little girl was savaged? not there.

the owners are never there when it matters. legislation wouldnt work with idiots who dont think the law applies to them. there has to be another answer. just dont ask me what it is...i dont know. maybe only people who have been on dog handling courses should own powerful breeds and should be vetted to ensure responsible ownership.

(val - i start on monday!)

Report
Lougle · 31/08/2010 23:58

Vallhala, your post, well to be honest it turned me off a bit, and I am a dog lover. I just think that much as I love dogs, there are people who are treated terribly by society, and if you are going to get worked up about something, then there are so many charities that could use your passion.

I get that you are a dog rescuer. That's fab, I rescued a dog myself, and he is sleeping beside me. But don't tell us all that unless we have cried for hours about a dog who needs a home we don't somehow get dogs.

Report
MollysChambers · 31/08/2010 23:59

Vicar - Chances are this wasn't the first time these dogs were on the street unsupervised. It would be down to people to report owner in that case. If police then had the power to remove the dogs then perhaps attacks like this could be avoided.

Report
cryhavoc · 31/08/2010 23:59

FallingWithStyle Yes, they do. We are lucky enough to have a designated area on the camp where dogs can be off lead, and, even though I am confident of their recall/behaviour I do not let them off if there are children around. Reading MN had made it abundantly clear that people do not want their children to be approached by dogs, so they stay on the lead of their are children on the dog field.

We live in a fairly rural area, so there are areas off camp where we let them off. Same rules apply - if other dogs are on leads, they stay on leads, if there are children around, they stay on their leads. Otherwise they are let off - Boydog is five, and happy to amble along with my toddler. Girldog fetches a tennis ball - she has done extensive agility training and ALWAYS comes back when called.

Report
Vallhala · 01/09/2010 00:00

Cryhavoc, I adore the breed too. This is the story of the boy I sat and carressed and helped carry in a blanket when he collapsed, losing all function to his back legs. A big boy, he just let us do it without a murmer.

Would recommend a GSD too. You could be the lady with the Rottweilers AND a GSD! :o

WRT on lead walking, sometimes that just doesn't work. Some dogs feel threatened by being contained and restricted and this could lead to increased problems rather than resolve them. Equally, many breeds, be they large herding ones like my GSDs or smaller busy ones like JRTs NEED to run and burn off energy. A restricted dog is often an unhappy dog with associated problems of boredom, weight gain and ill health.

Report
cryhavoc · 01/09/2010 00:03

Val, he's beautiful. I love the way they smile.

Report
cryhavoc · 01/09/2010 00:06

Sorry - if they, NOT of their

Report
ThatVikRinA22 · 01/09/2010 00:07

molly - the police do have power to seize a dangerous dog under the dangerous dogs act 1991 - but it has to be reported. the police cannot just go and seize every rotty or GSD they see. it has to be out of control and in a public place. if this were the case with these rotties why did it not get reported? the police dont have crystal balls,

Report
MollysChambers · 01/09/2010 00:09

Confused - thought rotties weren't classed as a dangerous dog?

Report
booyhoo · 01/09/2010 00:11

haven't read whole thread but rotties are a really beautiful dog. really attractive. i was born into a 3 dog household. 2 german sherherd dogs and a rottie. they really were gentle giants. it is all in the way they are raised and treated. mistreat animals and they end up with issues. an animal with an issue is dangerous. blame the bad owners, don't punish the good by limiting the amount of well behaved, loving creatures they give a home to.

Report
Vallhala · 01/09/2010 00:12

Vicar, that's great news! I really, really wish you incredible happiness and success, I know how hard you've fought for this. :)

Lougle, I'm not suggesting that others should shed tears, nor am I saying that you don't understand unless you do. I'm saying how I feel. I was speaking from (sometimes bitter) EXPERIENCE and FACT and that, to be honest, until someone can come along and trump my experience with something more than opinion I will persist in saying that their OPINION is bullshit. Besides, I want people to know the truth of the consequences of these views and not just believe the knee jerk reactions on here and add them to their own prejudices.

FWIW I also do a lot of fundraising for breast cancer charities and for CLICSARGENT. I have had BC but, thank god, no personal experience of child cancer and if I amtruthful am not the biggest fan of other people's DC. However, a classmate of DD1 died of cancer aged 14 last year and I know how much he suffered AND how many hundreds of thousands he raised for the charity during his illness, never once complaining or pitying himself. I felt that this deserved me to get off my arse and do something out of respect for that young man, so please don't presume to know me and indicate that I only "get worked up" about dogs.

Report
ThatVikRinA22 · 01/09/2010 00:17

as far as im aware - and i only start my training next week - but i think the dangerous dog act applies to all dogs. not just specific breeds.

Report
ThatVikRinA22 · 01/09/2010 00:19

thankyou val. x

Report
Vallhala · 01/09/2010 00:24

The DDA applies to 4 TYPES of breed specifically and ALL dogs if they are deemed to be dangerous. Those TYPES are the Pit Bull Terrier, the Japanese Tosa, the Dogo Argentino and the Fila Brasileiro.

DEFRA states, and this is the bit which is REALLY worrying and has caused Lennox, whom I mentioned earlier, to be incarcerated pending a court case although he has done NOTHING wrong:

It is important to note that, in the UK, dangerous dogs are classified by ?type?, not by breed label. This means that whether a dog is considered dangerous, and therefore prohibited, will depend on a judgment about its physical characteristics, and whether they match the description of a prohibited 'type'. This assessment of the physical characteristics is made by a court.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.