Rotweillors

[reptile]

What I can't understand (re the recent case in Dundee of a small girl being mauled by 3 rotweillors) is why we can't have a law limiting the number of these dogs people are allowed to own. I'm a dog owner, but why does anyone need/want 3 dogs, let alone rotweillors.
It would be so easy to police, rather than going on a case-by-case basis, if you had to have a license for your dog, and, in the case of dangerous breeds, had to prove your case for owning more than one (or even just one IMO).

[Vallhala]

To clarify, the 4 breeds are prohibited in law. Any dog which matches, in the opinion (NOT experience!) of a dog warden, police officer etc, the measurements of one of these and physical appearance, or who is acting in a dangerous manner or considered to be dangerous, can be impounded. The onus is on the OWNER to prove that the dog is NOT one of these types. Failure to do so results in the dog, regardless if he has not harmed a fly, to be PTS.

There can be, under rare circumstances, the occasional exceptions to the rule if a court deems it acceptable and after a long and expensive fight, owner against the might and money of the state, but these are very rare.

[ShinyAndNew]

Alright then, let's ban the rotty and the staff. The thugs will the start buying GSD's and training/abusing them into being aggressive. So we ban them. What's next, the Akita? The Husky? The Lab? How long before it gets to your family pet?

The problem with larger breeds, especially muscular ones, is that they attract the wrong kind of owner. I doubt there is anything much that we can do to stop this, as they are sorts of people who believe they are above the law in most cases. So the dog owners who are already responsible will go and get the licence and attend the training and what not and the thugs will continue illegally breeding and owning particular breeds of dog.

My uncle had two rottys when I was growing up. One was aggressive and couldn't be trusted with anyone but my uncle. It wasn't allowed out in public without a strong chain and muzzle. The other was a big softy. One had spent the first few years of life as a fighting dog. He spent much of his life in a shed with no windows, apart from when he was being beaten with chains to 'turn him'. I bet it won't take much for you guess which of the two dogs this was?

My family has at some point probably owned every sort of 'dangerous' dog going. I grew up with 'dangerous' dogs. I called our family's Doberman Nanny, because she would cuddle me when I was upset and squeeze up to me when I was scared. She was never on the news, or in a newspaper, because she never did anything wrong. To this day people in the street we lived in still remember that dog and still talk about how gentle and loving she was and she passed away in my arms over 13 years ago.

Throughout my encounters with all these 'dangerous' dogs, I have been snapped at once. Not bitten, just snapped at and it was my own fault.

[Scuttlebutter]

Have come fairly late to this thread, so mucha has already been said. We have three dogs (greyhounds), all rescue. We started with one, loved them and felt we could offer a home to a second. After a while, we got involved in fostering and other volunteering - one of our fosters ended up staying permanently. All our dogs never go outside the house without wearing ID, all are chipped, wormed, and always on the lead except occasionally, well away from children and other dogs. In fact like many greyhound owners we go to a great deal of trouble to find safe, secure off lead play areas for our hounds, and I actively go out of my way to avoid small children as much as I can when walking them, partly because I understand that some people find dogs frightening (even when they are walking along very peacefully). DH goes running with one of our hounds. Next week, I and our most recent greyhound addition will be starting on our Kennel Club Canine Good Citizen classes. I really don't think we can do any more to be responsible dog owners - I should add of course that we ALWAYS scoop.
Personally, I understand that the two dogs concerned in this tragic attack were off the lead. That, in my view, is irresponsible of their owner. I feel desperately sorry for the little girl and hope she recovers. I would wholeheartedly endorse compulsory microchipping and third party insurance for dogs, and one thing which might be helpful is for social landlords to bring in tougher rules for dog ownership in their properties. Many are now moving to insist on compulsory microchipping for tenants' dogs - maybe in future a limit on the total number of dogs, or an insistence on doing something like the CGC course would be helpful. Finally, DW services are generally underfunded and overstretched - they could be better funded and managed which would help a lot.

[spikeycow]

I am also sick of these threads every time there's another headline. I've known rotties and even pit bull terriers who are soppy as sacks with people. And no I'm not the "my dog would never" type. My male staffie only goes off lead with a muzzle due to dog aggression. I'm sensible, unlike certain people on this thread. Ignorance is a polite word for stupidity, there is no excuse for such generalisations apart from that. Do you know how many hysterical thickos put their dogs into rescue because of the headlines that have set you lot off? Or even abandon them on the streets?
Oh and as for the charity for people baloney,I'm sick of that too. Animals are innocent, and most of their problems are caused by people abusing and dismissing them. Grow up and wise up and stop making sweeping generalisations.

[spikeycow]

And at thick scum. What's thicker than reading a newspaper headline and getting hysterical? Are you of the "hunt paeditricians" brigade aswell? LOL

[minimu1]

Oh God try not to read these threads due to the ignorance shown but felt the need to support Valhalla wholeheartedly.

I see the other side of dogs on a daily basis as I train dogs for assistance for disabled people. Yep some are labs etcs but oh my god we also have a rottie. It was for a soldier who has lost his legs in Afghanistan. The dog gets him out of bed, helps him into his wheelchair and supports him 24 hours a day. AS yet the solider is still alive and has not been savagaed to death by it!

I feel huge sympathy for the young girl and agree that people do need to be educated in looking after and training dogs. But lets proceed with an educated and sensible approach to prevent these attacks happening (which are very very rare thank goodness). It is definately down to the education of the owners.

Val keep up the good work

[nancydrewrocked]

What is the objection to dogs being muzzled in public?

[winnybella]

Agree, as usual, with everything Val said. It's not about the breed, it's about irresponsible ownership and, in a very few cases, aggresive invidual dogs. I've been around dogs growing up and the only dog that has ever bit me was a little yappy dachshund.

Although am because I promised myself I would go to bed at a reasonable time, but stayed up forever reading about Lennox (awful story) and Danny- he is soooo sweet. Hope he'll find a good home soon.

[moonmother]

I support Valhallas post 100%

I am a responsible dog owner, my dog is well trained, he is exercised daily, on a lead in public, off lead in areas suitable, and when others are in that area, hes on his lead too. I clear up after him. I do not let him jump up anyone. I have 2 children (10 and 7).

I am one of millions of responsible dog owners in this country. I own a Border Collie, a sheepdog, not a Rottie, or a Staff, or Jack Russell, etc etc. Other responsible dog owners do though.Millions of dog owners go through normal daily life with their dogs.


Yes it is terrible that children/people are being attacked by dogs. Yes I am going to give that age old argument that dogs are only as well behaved as their owners teach them to be it's the truth.

Yes something does need to be done about 'status' dogs. Not because they are all dangerous, but because as Val has said rescues are inundated with these type of dogs. People getting these dogs as 'status' dogs are giving these breeds a bad name.

Satus Dogs , ie Rotties, Staffs etc are giving themselves this status... the morons buying them to make themselves look 'hard' are.


As a responsible dog owner, my dog is regularly vaccinated and micro-chipped. I am also happy to bring back and pay for a dog licence/passport type thing for my dog. Sadly though the people who still own breeds like pit bulls although illegal aren't going to go out and purchase the licence for their dog.

In the end there are 2 camps as always, people who love dogs, and people who hate them. that will never change.

[Lizzylou]

I don't like dogs, I am scared of them so I don't have them as pets. Which is my choice.

So I wouldn't want to walk a mile in your shoes Val as most dogs scare me shitless (from 2 incidents as a child), not just big "dangerous" dogs.

Irresponsible dog owners ruin it for everyone from what I see, we were walking on a coastal path over the bank holiday which was narrow with a steep drop, barely enough room for one adult (clinging desperately to their clumsy child ) to walk down. Some utter twats thought that letting their 3 GSDs to run free off the lead was a great idea. Imagine how terrifying that is for a 4 year old boy to turn a corner and 3 big jumping dogs running at him? There were so many dogs off the lead, one huge Rottweiler, an Akita on the beach that needed two men to hold him back whenever a smaller dog went anywhere near it.

I appreciate that everyone is different, I commend people who love and care for dogs, I do. I know that there are lots of people who are responsible owners.
But don't expect everyone to like them and everyone to want dogs "in your face" when they just want to enjoy the countryside/seaside themselves.

[PaulaMummyKnowsBest]

I have never owned a rottie but the only ones I have ever come across have been cared for by decent human beings and so the dogs were also lovely.

I have however been guilty of owning a "giant breed". My Newfie was as gentle as they come and was the biggest softie you could ever come across. Having said that, his size was very scary for some so he was never let off lead if other people were around.

I miss my softie and am again thinking of getting another giant breed. As i have 3 children, he will need to be well trained (as my newfie was) but equally the children have to realise that the dog isn't a toy and they would need to respect the dog.

Respect and training works both ways.

[boiledegg1]

I have no idea what the answer is, these headlines always depress me but thankfully these cases must be quite rare.

[WilfShelf]

I don't much like dogs, especially not large ones, but I try and not pass that on to my children. The issue is really NOT the dogs or breed though (except for those very few nutty dogs who have a problem which can't be socialised/trained away, but most responsible owners will recognise this anyway and muzzle or keep indoors etc).

The problem is the culture of masculinity in some socially excluded groups who deliberately train large and strong dogs to be used as weapons, in reality or as a threatening symbol to others. This is the thing that needs to be tackled but is very difficult to do. Such owners have little concern for others and would never engage with any formal licensing in any case. I think however, returning to proper regulated dog licensing would allow the police and authorities to have a reason to check people's care of their dogs and so might reduce the accessibility of poorly bred and trained attack dogs.

[PawMum]

I agree with moonmother

Isnt it something to do with how certain breeds bite aswell? because their jaws lock?

[walkersmum]

Another supporter of Valhallas

There are approx 8 million pet dogs in the UK - stats from the RSPCA.

I know one attack is one to many but a sense of perspective is needed.

[clayre]

It said on the local radio this morning that the owners of these dogs that attacked the 10 year old had been in court about these dogs 5 months ago.

Cut and pasted fron the website -


ROTTWEILERS HAD ATTACKED BEFORE

It's emerged the dogs that mauled a 10 year old girl in Dundee at the weekend - had attacked before. The owner of the Rottweilers was told by a court to control them five months ago. It's after they savaged George Jamieson - leaving him with wounds that took months to heal. Rhianna Kidd continues to recover in hospital following her ordeal in Dryburgh Street. A woman has been charged under the dangerous dogs act - with the rottweilers being destroyed on Monday.

[Lizzylou]

I agree with Wilf, there is a definite culture of men having these big/"dangerous" dogs to try and look mean/hard.
I used to take my boys to a rescue centre weekly to meet with dogs so that they wouldn't be scared of dogs like I am.

I do have to say that when I was a young teen a family member had a Rottweiler and as I knew it from a puppy, I was very comfortable with her. To be completely honest, she was gorgeous, very loving and soft. She was well trained and we were all very respectful of her, that is obviously what is lacking with some owners.

Bizarre that for a person who hates dogs, the only 2 I ever really loved were a Rottweiler and my Stepmom's West Highland terrier

[Ephiny]

Definitely sounds like irresponsible owners - I was shocked to begin with that the owners apparently just let their dogs out into the street to run around (I wouldn't do this with the gentlest dog, not least because it might get stolen or hit by traffic or attacked by another dog), but to do so with a dog that had previously bitten a child is a special kind of stupid.

So angry with these people putting both children and animals at risk, and giving all us dog owners a bad name...

[Laska]

Excellent and balanced posts from vallhalla

Statistically, children are infinitely more at risk of abuse / injury / death from their own parents than from dogs. Therefore how's about we remove all kids from their parents at birth and bring them up in state run facilities. There we go

When will people realise that banning everything DOESN'T WORK? That banning pit bulls has led to more PB 'types' on the street than pre the (ill-thought out) ban? That the breeds themselves aren't dangerous, but irresponsible / vicious owners are?

Muzzle all dogs? Why should my well trained GSD who adores kids and who has helped many overcome fears of dogs be muzzled, because some idiots have discovered that using a dog as a weapon carries less penalties than carrying a knife?

My thoughts are with the little girl and her family, and wishing her a fast recovery from an awful ordeal.

[Vallhala]

PawMum, studies have been carried out on this and the conclusion is what rescue has known all along = the locking jaw idea is a myth. The bone structure of a SBT, Pit etc is no different to any other dog.

There was a great article and references to the research online by a UK rescue but I can't find it atm!

[PawMum]

thanks vallhala, I will know that it isno longer true then!

I can't believe the dogs were just let out on the street either

[moonmother]

That is the exact point us 'dog lovers' are trying to make.

These dogs were not being properly being controlled by the irresponsible owners.

These dogs were out on the street running loose after the owners had already been found guilty of no control over the animals. Personally I find it hard to believe these dogs had bitten before, as they would have been destroyed then. The owners have been guilty of not controlling their dogs properly, on previous occasions. These people are the guilty ones, the dogs only know how to act because their behaviour hasn't been controlled.

Personally in my opinion the owners of these dogs deserve a substantial prison sentence- this in turn may encourage people to be responsible dog owners, and might deter people from owning so called status dogs.

[ShinyAndNew]

I think I have read that research somewhere Vall. A SBT cannot lock it's jaw. No dog can. It is physically impossible. In order to lock the jaw they would need to dislocate it, which would be bloody painful for the dog. And then once they had dislocated it and finished eating all the babies and kittens who snaps the jaw back into place for them?

It's not only a myth, but a laughable myth. Yes they have very strong jaws. But they don't lock. Most hunting/fighting dogs have strong jaws. The Lab is a hunting dog btw.

[ShinyAndNew]

Riven some breeds of dog need lots of exercise and off the lead running time. Some dogs find muzzles uncomfortable and frightening. Why punish a whole species for the actions of a few?

If I was raped and then demanded that no man leave the house without wearing a chasity belt and there'd be outrage, or you would all just laugh at me. But no one would agree it's a good idea. I would be reminded that not all men commit rape.