So, white working class children are being failed by schools and society in general.

[mrsruffallo]

Held in contempt by the middle classes (much evidence of that on here)
Industry no longer provides these people with a job for a life, dismissed as chavs, it seems that these are the the people that it is okay to ignore.....

claig, I would like to see a culture where children actively learn outside of school by choice and under their own steam, rather than complete set tasks out of fear of sanctions IYSWIM.

The state decided we need to wear seat belts and we do. The state said no smoking in pubs and people obey. The state fines people for speeding and we obey. The state can change attitudes. If the state started fining people for storming into schools, things would soon change, and we would go back to how it used to be.

I agree tethersend, but when I was young, if I had my own way, I wouldn't have done extra out of school, I would always have found something more interesting to do.

Btw, am not an expert but think there has been a big shift in working class culture since the massive job losses of the 80s. When I was little, the working class parents round my neck of the woods - a small village in Yorkshire - were really strict. (Although up to what, the 60s, the middle classes also certainly expected instant obedience from children.) But their children COULD expect a job when they left school - OK, maybe a job in a factory or on a farm rather than running ICI, but a decent job where you could earn a living and support a family.

GiddyPickle I agree with all that. What I am saying is that people are blaming the failure on feckless parents, and although having a feckless parent is not ideal, I don't think it is the cause of the failure. It is a bit like those who blame the unemployed for being feckless, when the real problem is a lack of good jobs with decent pay. It is easy to blame the parents and the unemployed and it lets the state off the hook.

I think the most relevant noun in that sentence is "white" not "class".

We started with schools of white children and then other children of other nationalities came and they were not doing well. We quite rightly organised things to help these children.

The problem is that we have been so busy creating a multi cultural society. We have catered for the need of ethnic monorities and forgotten the needs of the working class white children. Who are now lagging behind the groups that have been targetted for extra help.

The problem is arising mainly in schools with a large mix of nationalities where English is not their first language. It is harder for Working class white children to thrive in these schools than in schools that have a majority of working class white children and cater to their particular areas of weakness.

I am not advocating segrogation, but it must be a lot easier to teach to children of the same nationality, who speak the same language.

people have made comments on here about the problem being poverty and so on, whilst I tihnk poverty can have some influence - more money probably means less stress, and access to paid tuition, etc - I really think its too simplistic an explanation. I really don't think that educational values have to be connected to your wealth.

It costs nothing for children to take books out of the library. Good quality charity shops can have real bargains in terms of toys - the best toys are natural and simple everyday items that stimulate creativity anyway - board games and subject books. You can save up for a musical instrument or buy a decent second hand one on ebay, sometimes free on freecycle. Reading to your child costs nothing. Museums and galleries (at least in london) are free. Sometimes I think the problem is that working class parents may have less confidence in their own abilities and leave all of it up to teachers.

Are you a teacher, lynli?

No, I just read the article and that was my interpretation.

Thank fuck for that.

Agree with you lynli...100%, y'know this subject has been brought up before on MN...about a year ago actually...it's not "news" really.

Thankfully Labour have been kicked out now so hopefully things will improve.

Oh dear. And it was all going so well.

You don't mean nationality, do you? The vast majority of children of another nationality at my school are white. They are Eastern European. We have black students, and we have students from an Asian background, but they are all British. Actually, no, we have a sprinkling of Nepalese children too. But they do pretty well, rarely need extra help and speak excellent English. So don't really work in your argument.

Cobblers, lynli and daftpunk.

My son goes to a school where ALL the children speak a different language at home. They also learn 2 languages at school. And come from every country you can think of.

It's brilliant. We pay a fortune for it.

what's the problem? to be honest one of the reasons i left london originally was that because i could see my son becoming a 'loner' in a class of non-english speakers and would be left behind.

flame me but i imagine lots did the same. well i know lots did.

It's the reason most people leave London...if they're honest

This is a real shame, I was enjoying the discussion.

It's ok tethersend I'm going....

what's a shame?

It actually wasn't you daftpunk (though your agreement sealed it)- think I'd better go, actually.

Yes, it was constructive and informative. Oh well.

I volunteer on a program which works with secondary school children. Can confirm that children in bad schools in depressed parts of all-white rural East Anglia do really badly, despite being safely segregated from dangerous foreigners.

tethersend...don't go, you're a teacher and this thread needs you..

I'll go....it's not a problem..

i imagine it's caused by lots of things, easy to just blame one. loss of industry and apprenticeships, experimental educational systems, welfare state.

if you can opt out of local state education it's probably easy to judge.

Who's opting out, sea?