Hoarders Anonymous. Thread #8. We Are Keeping On Keeping On. Fighting The Cluttered Fight.

[Solo]

We are a group of likeminded householders who are leading somewhat challenging lives; be that living with too much 'stuff' that we find difficult to deal with, houses that are falling apart (mine is), health issues within the family unit, wider family, or ourselves (me too) that means sorting out our households is challenging to say the least. So...

You are all welcome to join us for support, adding your ideas to help others out, storage ideas, and even tips on actually getting those items out of the house which sounds so simple when you say it, but this part can be so very difficult; we are often attached emotionally to our 'things', afraid of letting things go just in case we need them.

Encouragement and support abound here in our band of clutterbugs. We never ever criticise anyone! We even try not to criticise ourselves as it's not helpful to anyone, but this can be very difficult to achieve.

If you are feeling overwhelmed by clutter, mess, disorganization and generally don't know where to start. If you can't be bothered, but really do want to be bothered. If you think you are a bit lazy, or if you just need to see your highs and lows and everything in between on the screen here, join us, and we will help you. We'll virtually high-five your achievements - small or large, and virtually hug you when the need arises. If you want a hug, just ask because we are here for you, here for one another because we get it. The art of washing up is sometimes our great achievement of the day, but it's still an achievement

Some helpful links. They aren't for everyone, but have a look if you fancy:

• Help For Hoarders by Jasmine Harman (the author/producer of the BBC1 documentaries My Hoarder Mum and Me and Britain's Biggest Hoarders)
• The FlyLady Cleaning Method by Marla Cilley
• The Organised Mum Method by Gemma Bray
• The KonMari Method by Marie Kondo
• A Slob Comes Clean by Dana K. White
• The Getting Things Done Method by David Allen

And a LINK-#7

I'm not sure if The Flylady link is working, but if not, you know what to search for.

Welcome to thread #8 of Hoarders Anonymous. Thread #8. We Are Keeping On Keeping On. Fighting The Cluttered Fight (and winning, one small step at a time).

Social services emergency duty worker just called, wanting to know aunts home insurance company details. They where told on Friday she doesn't have insurance.

Elleherd the LL will have building insurance surely? SW needs to contact LL so LL insurance company can argue with the other one to have the building repaired and redecorated from the fire damage. Aunt loses any destroyed belongings of course, that's the risk she took not having insurance but I'm guessing it's also the least of her concerns right now. Oh well, they've been told twice now, hopefully they'll get on with actually sorting it out. A fire was the last thing you and aunt needed 😩

You're spot on about it being the last thing needed. TBH I don't entirely understand how it's supposed to work.
I know her LL expects tenants to have their own insurance (mine does too, but knows we can't get anything worth having because of their buildings.)
Neither she or I have been able to get hold of her LL yet, but I'm busy.
Neighbor owns their flat, and her son says she is fully insured, which made me hopeful. Her upstairs neighbor's stepped in to help with cats which is a huge relief.
Although aunts flat is a mess and looks awful, it's mainly smoke and soot, and water damage to carpets. I would think most of her possessions will just need cleaning, but there's a lot of them.
I've taken lots of photo's, am airing it as best as can, sucked a lot of the water up, and taken a humidifier over there.
I know from experience that if you don't clean up straight away damage gets worse, so a bit concerned.
Only thing I'm certain of is I can't get caught up in another situation where aunt is somewhere other than at home and I'm being chased for costs, so have made it very clear to SS, and in the message left for LL.

Trying to focus on my own situation today especially as have paid work for later part.

Yes Elleherd there's no way you're responsible for any of aunt's costs, please don't get bullied into that again, even if it means aunt having to admit she can't cope and go into care home. Do not agree to take responsibility for anything at all if you're talking to aunt's social worker. That might be what landed you in it last time, if you said you'd do X by Y timescale and then didn't. I advise saying only non-committal things like you'll help her where you can, but no specifics.

In social housing tenants usually have to clean up themselves after fire damage.

Tenants in any rental only have contents insurance for their personal possessions and sometimes this also covers accidental damage so LL can recover costs from tenant if there is any (because otherwise you can't get blood out of a stone, most tenants are skint so no point suing and the rental rental deposit rarely is enough to fully cover any major repairs needed from accidents).

IDK completely how it works for insurance in private rental. Some LL make it a condition of tenancy that tenant has this accidental damage insurance, so if this is the case and aunt doesn't, then she's in breach of her tenancy agreement. But if LL hasn't said anything about terminating tenancy over it then I wouldn't worry about it. If aunt did have this insurance I think it would cover cosmetic repairs for fire damage (and they'd probably chase the other person's insurance for reimbursement because your aunt didn't cause the fire).

Building insurance is for homeowners only, to cover damage to the building itself. LL should have this, would be a fool not to. Usually homeowner claims on their own insurance and if the damage isn't their fault, the insurance company will go after the person who's fault it was (or their insurance company) to get reimbursed.

If there's no damages to the building itself IDK if LL insurance will pay out for redecorating and cleanup costs. It does if you're the homeowner and living there, but if the property is rented out then IDK if it changes things.

So the first thing to establish is who is responsible for cleanup. Regardless of truth of that, the LL doesn't sound a good one if the property has damp issues and you've been left to sort it out previously. So as there's no structural damage, I'm going to assume LL won't want to put in an insurance claim (because the premium will then rise at renewal) so will tell you it's aunt's responsibility. If that happens and she doesn't dry out ASAP but leaves it and it causes damp issues or structural damage, I'll bet LL will try to blame these on aunt.

I'm thinking you'll need wet hoover machine for washing carpets to get the water out if it's fitted carpets, to make them easier to deal with. Pulling up carpets and replacing if it's either rugs your aunt bought or fitted carpet she paid for. IDK that it's possible to shampoo fire damage out of a carpet, I think they're trash once fire damaged, so if it's LL carpets IDK if their insurance covers replacement or not, or whether you'll be left to shampoo as best you can and live with it. Also I think carpets have to come up really to air everything properly to dry it out or I think you'll end up with mouldy floors/carpets and rotting floorboards. You'll definitely need at least one dehumidifier.

Walls can just be washed and either repainted or re wallpaper when dry.

Anything electronic that got heated up by fire, filled with soot or water damaged is probably trash because I think it can't be guaranteed safe any more even if you cleaned it up and dried it out and got it working again.

I can't believe you and aunt have ended up with this mammoth task on top of everything else. Thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope LL can/will do something with their own insurance so it's less of a hassle for you.

BlueSummerBaby Thank you for such an informative post. It's really helpful.
People have been saying it's down to the landlord and I should leave things as they are and wait, but my instincts are that given how her LL has been over most things, not ensuring damage is limited now, will cost later and it wont be him paying. Your comment about a rise in premiums has chimed with a comment one of her neighbors made

I learnt my lesson over being held responsible for costs before, when I made the mistake of thinking everyone was on the same side, and have been very assertive and followed up conversations with SS in writing.

Yes to needing this like a hole in the head, timing is really bad, I need to be fully focused on our home and stuff and what's happening with it, not dealing with hers. But at least with the B&B she has independence and is able to take herself to see her cats as much as she wants.

Yesterday underestimated how long phone calls would take before work, (or just how annoyed I'd end up) and was beyond distracted and have ended up having to bring incomplete work back with me to finish. But have our surveyor firmly booked in for Friday at least, which should mean I'll get a starting date from builders off the back of it, and a bit more structure over what needs to move where, by when.

Don't forget that when it comes to dealing with LL and organising anyone (tradesmen, if they're paid for by you/aunt) who needs to come in to sort out aunt's place or even smaller things like organising the hiring of a carpet cleaning machine (if paid for by you/aunt), aunt's care coordinator (social worker probably) should be helping her with that if aunt isn't capable of sorting these things out herself, it's literally their job, it's not down to you to sort it all.

SW will want her back in there ASAP because temporary housing is costing the council money and regardless of which organisation a social worker is attached to, they are council employees and it's the council paying them, so they'll always be on the council's side.

That's why they want to chase the LL to sort something out. If aunt had insurance the easiest way would be for aunt's insurance to sort it then the insurance company chases LL (or LL insurance company) for reimbursement. A few phone calls to aunt's insurance company and SW job is done.

Whereas it's hard for an individual to chase someone (or someone's insurance company) because these insurance companies are all about business, not public service, so they won't pay unless they have to. They know damn well that the private individual can be dicked around at length due to lack of funds/lack of understanding/other personal difficulties, but that if another insurance company suffers a loss (by paying out to their policy holder), then that company will have an expensive legal team in-house (as they all do) with which to chase anyone they can for reimbursement. This is why SW asked for aunt's insurance details, because if LL (and/or LL insurance company) aren't decent, SW knows things will drag on unacceptably long or possibly forever.

SW can't justify to their bosses temporary accommodation forever, because there's a stalemate between LL not doing their duty and fixing this so aunt can move back in and aunt being unable to pay up for it all herself and then sue LL (or their insurance) in small claims court for whatever she's paid out. They can justify to their bosses a decision to place an old infirm lady with no useable home into a care home, even though that probably costs more.

From the SW perspective there's also the issue that if aunt keeps needing intervention it takes up their time (and they're probably massively overworked and doing unpaid overtime etc) so if they can get someone "time heavy" into care so they're no longer their responsibility day to day and they only need a care plan meeting occasionally, that will free up their time to help others they're responsible for who have no alternative.

If aunt refuses care they're back to pressurising the family to step up and help relieve their (SW's) burden.

From your perspective aunt has let you down massively here by not paying the £1-200/yr for the tenants insurance. Because she didn't, you've now been left this headache to deal with (because realistically SW probably can't do much about sorting the flat) at your own expense (since aunt is skint) and with the resulting impact on your own life.

You've every right to be cross with her. Especially as she's adamant she doesn't want a care home, has you repeatedly fighting to uphold her wishes, yet has actively put her own tenancy at risk by not complying with the contract!

Personally, I'd be making this help this time conditional upon aunt having insurance going forward, so in future any such thing can be dumped squarely at the SW door, who will then have the necessary tools to get it sorted without your involvement.

Again thank you, lots of food for thought. Aunt doesn't have a SW just being handled by duty SW. TBH they where just looking to recover the costs of the weekend emergency accommodation, not be involved further.

Because of what happened previously, aunts been warned that while I'll do what I can for her, she needs to budget all of this with the assumption that she'll be paying for everything including the additional electricity bill, and then may or may not get any of it back from neighbor, but should assume not, and anything else is a bonus. Because she's in B&B she can come and go as she pleases which means she can come look at things and make decisions, and be able to take more responsibility.

My reckoning is she can afford to stay in the B&B for this week and next, but if she stays the second week she'll be struggling to pay for anything else, have to come to an agreement with energy companies, and I'm short on time and energy to provide DIY help. She only has free storage with me while I have temporary 'building works' unit.

I've re 'hoovered' wet carpets and got the affected areas propped a foot up, humidifiers working overtime, and things seem to be drying out. Neighbors son has said he'll call me when their loss adjuster is going to there. Aunts LL remains notably absent!

Although my shed's still a half collapsed mess, it's now tarpaulin covered, and managed to get lots done today and feeling a bit more organized, if running very behind. Got most hand tools rescued, remains of 20 sacks of gravel and sand out and in a pile, pile of deck boards rescued, chomped ends cut off, greenhouse more sorted out, and seven big sacks of stuff and one carrier bag of recycling, out and down to the dump.

Surveyor's coming later today with builder, and they're taking up groups of floorboards in every room, and while it's not how I'd like it to be there's nothing to write home about. There's clear access to everything they've asked for, and we'll find out how much else needs to be decanted for them, once they can tell us what exactly they're going to be doing and when.

I'm going to end up with a breakdown over bloody builders. 😡Quite outing but I'm past the stage of caring.. Ended up with fire brigade, the street closed down, big hole dug, half the world in and out, dirt all over the place, barriers and no smoking signs everywhere, and several other flats have had their gas cut off too!

Idiot accompanying surveyor did something wrong and end result is a major gas leak. Trying to claim it was nothing to do with him and a total coincidence that something in the cellar failed at the exact same time he was cutting a bigger hole for a ladder! 😡Gas people unimpressed with him and also with the state of the pipes. Apparently everything's ancient and they wouldn't expect things laid out the way they are affecting lots of different properties.
Everyone's been left a hot plate, and a fan heater (which I might take over to aunts and aim at carpets tbh!)

Just to add insult to injury, surveyor hasn't finished, but has said he'll need much more access than they previously said just to assess what they'll be doing, before the actual job starts, which throws the budget on storage completely.
He's trying to imply this might not have happened if they'd had access to the whole floor. 😡They didn't ask for that!

Am going to do more work out back,more clean up here, go to aunts to air things and for for a shower, then return, get on with things here and try not to loose the plot! I really could just howl!

Gosh elleherd what a shower of shite they are. Reckon your days in that flay could be numbered. Sounds like the whole building needs gutting and renovating properly and that can't really be done with tenants in situ so LL is likely to sell. I realize there'll be an emotional elements to some of it but anything you're keeping solely due to its value or cost to replace, I'd get rid, what with storage costing so much.

Maybe things would have been different if they'd had access to the whole floor but you're also entitled to live however you want to in your own home. He's no rights to pass judgement on that. It's not illegal to be a hoarder and it's not breaking the tenancy agreement either if you're providing requested access where necessary and you're not harming the building with the hoarded conditions.

I wonder if LL will actually repair it? My family had a gas leak under the house and they just cut off the gas and installed electric heaters.

Aww sounds a mare @Elleherd .

Went to recycling centre and cleared a car full the other day. Mainly from middle bedroom cupboard so not much notice, but at least it's cleared some shelves.

Living room nearly sorted. Spend a little time in bedroom tidying and is improving.

A tonne worth of leaves to clear in the garden. Kitchen, two other bedrooms are very cluttered. Slow progress but at least improving.

When I had the overflow from the loft flood some rooms while we were on holiday (because builders forgot to move it when an extension was built ) I hired this machine like an enormous hair dryer from HSS. It blew warm air under the carpet, that ballooned up (hard to describe) and dried quickly, combined with the use of dehumidifiers . It all sounds so hard, hope things go more smoothly soon.

BlueSummerBaby They've an issue with selling, because they acquired it from our original HA with covenants in place, thinking they could land bank it, let it fall apart, we'd go, then sell off for major profit on the land footprint.
When they found they couldn't, they 're-modeled' us, communal areas, gardens etc, forcing us into smaller spaces, so they could squeeze extra properties into the buildings and get additional money housing ASB tenants evicted from elsewhere.

If they needed access to the whole floor, then they should have stated that, and they'd have had it. They got exactly what they asked for, and a little bit more 'in case.' I'm fuming because they're trying to shift blame for their incompetence.

Definitely no damage being done by what I have here. I'm realistic about the issues it can bring.
I've an excess of filled shelves and cupboards, and chests of drawers, round the sides of most rooms. (all used to be hidden behind sliding track doors) and a larger room has a large expidit as a room divider. I've normally also large work tables with equipment on them, but they're all folded down.
I do also have a couple of large plan chests, and a full size filing cabinet, and I have a big old kitchen table, and a space-consuming hospital bed/accessories.
Because builders previously needed wall access it was all moved into the rooms centers creating 'wall access corridors' with the carpets turned up at the sides. When they said they needed specific additional floor access where some of it was placed, I dismantled shelves, and took them and contents to storage. Nothing was said to suggest any problems until after he'd caused the leak.

When the place is laid out as normal most people don't recognize it as specifically hoarding because it's organized and tidy, and you can move around it comfortably in a wheelchair, with plenty of floor space. There's just less bare wall and more shelves and books than most people have, but even then every room has at least one wall free of shelves. But I have NHS staff, builders, carers, visitors, Dc's mates, etc in and out, without eyebrows particularly raised.
It's me who knows the internal battle and what else I'm rotating from elsewhere and how much cleaning..

LL might well decide we all have to go electric only if it's the cheapest solution, but I wonder where we'd stand over replacing cookers and fires etc as mainly only boilers, and pipes are LL provided. Radiators /fires where/are mostly non working and we got told long ago to replace them ourselves, or live without.

TalkToTheHand It really is. I just can't get things to go smoothly.
Well done getting that car load out. It may not be obvious immediately but every reclaimed space is a little closer to more manageable.
Rake the leaves into a pile and let the earth have them back.
All progress tends to be slower than we want, but it gets us there.

Thehillsarealive Thank you, that's really interesting. I previously hired an infrared heating lamp from HSS ( cost arm and a leg on electricity) but it sounds like 'drying out equipment' has moved on since I last had to know about it. Currently got aunts carpet propped up on tin can 'pillars' with the convection fan blowing under it and a reasonable size humidifier, but it's all very amateur.

Managed to box up more stuff, but suspect I'm going to have to virtually clear out every room at this rate, which I didn't want to have to do earlier than actually needed because of storage costs and the fear of them running the work late.
Just Urgh!!! to all of it!

Elleherd sending massive ((HUGS)) to you. That is all horrid.

TalkToTheHand123 Good job getting the stuff out of the house.

Still not much here.
I've done extra wash loads. More to do.
Washing up (tick)
Changed bedding (tick)

The building where I work has set up a little library/book swap, and I intend to get rid of some books there.

I have been falling asleep at any given moment, so I will put my last wash load for today to dry on the airer and hangers and go to bed. I have a few days off work, so I'm hoping to have a good mindset to actually do stuff. I need to be ruthless.

to you all. Keep on keeping on.

They're so incompetent they're almost guaranteed to run the work late Elleherd. People like them never admit when something is their fault. It's so hard when you've got a bad LL but you can't just move, because of your circumstances. There's too many of them around as well.

Solo Thanks, it is just horrid! Good news about the book swap opportunity. I know it's probably not great in other ways, but I'm envious of the ability to fall asleep. Willing forward your ruthlessness in de-cluttering over next few days, and hope I can emulate you a bit more.

BlueSummerBaby Sadly I think you're spot on and there's no way I can really plan around this with any accuracy, which is a big worry financially.

Trying to beat feeling completely overwhelmed. Launderette and shopping have to be fitted into today as ran out of time over the weekend, and have work tomorrow.
Spent most of weekend dealing with gas vans all over the place, tree people as gas have hacked through big roots, front garden, path, and street being dug up, and resulting mess tracked in everywhere. After a rough weekend I've said going forward I'll carry on making as much tea and coffee as they can drink, but I can't cope with the constant flow of muddy men needing the loo, and subsequent clean up's, so it's either strip off external kit and boots outside, or go elsewhere! Awful neighbor's been hanging out flirting madly (it's like a modern day carry on film except some of the blokes aren't keen) and trashing me to them, so they can try there!
Hopefully they're back filling all a lot of it today, as they've found most of what they where tracing.

Gas contractors need access to an old coal cellar which brings another set of problems, as it's sealed off, and of course I've got shelves in the old 'cul de sac' corridor. Also need urgent access at back of house in different part from what was cleared for builders, inevitably gas blokes need where I decanted lots of stuff!

They've said the leak's was caused by unmaintained pipes, and suggested a "lack of experience" by the surveyors assistant. Other bloke when asked if he knew what had happened, just said grimly "A Muppet!"

Am now just trying to pack up as much lighter more easier transportable stuff as possible and get it into storage as fast as possible without collapsing myself. (The latter's harder than it sounds) Small van load went down last night,, and produced two carrier bags of recycling to go.

Need to basic batch cook for the week so ready supply of food can just be microwaved or heated up on the one ring plate gas board have left us. Going to clean and drop-sheet aunts kitchen to a point I can get that done over there.
Her flat's drying out and I've cleaned up a few things but not much apart from the bathroom, which I've borrowed). Someone from her neighbors insurance company is there tomorrow and her son thinks there may just be some cover for aunt from them. Fingers crossed. Aunts LL is notably absent. My heads just spinning from it all.

A point from Gardener's Question Time - apparently American studies suggest that leaving dead leaves on the lawn does no harm. Would be an issue if they were holly or similar that take ages to break down, or covering paths, but otherwise you may be able to reasonably ignore them. Birmingham botanic garden episode if you're interested.

@TimTamTime I caught that the other day as well.

@Solo Hoping your few days off at it are going well, and you're managing much ruthlessness. 🙂

Update: Launderette, batch cooking, and paid work all happened, though once again I ended up having to bring back unfinished paid work to complete yesterday which ate into a lot of it, along with talking to aunt about finances.

Have to clear up a fair amount from last nights trick or treater's which seems to have got a bit out of hand, but things are a bit better here with pavement, path, and mud, but those cut off are getting rapidly grumpy about it, and I seem to be the only one trying to clear up the mud deluge. Gas contractors need cellar and back of building access for Monday, and as they have actually given us all a plan of action and turn up when they say they will, I'm prioritizing them, and builders and surveyor can take second place.

Managed to get about a third of the sacks of earth away from the back of the building and into a useable pile in the garden, and a little bit more stuff sorted and boxed, and three sacks to be disposed off. Ones already gone, but was hurting too much to take the others to the dump.
Hoping to get another third of the earth done today. If I do too much at once I'll end up unable to do anything else, so breaking things into chunks trying not to incapacitate myself.
Have to go to aunts for a hot bath and check on things there, then back to attack here. Somehow have to achieve serious progress today.

Thanks @TimTamTime about the leaves, but it looks very messy so would rather have it cleared.

Talking of access, I'm getting so annoyed with the neighbour. Not only has he blocked the archway with clutter, he now has a big bag of hay infront of the archway door. It's been there weeks. Pure ignorance. So frustrating.

Just wait until I get round to having the back gutters cleaned, I'll be flinging his stuff all over the place!

@TalkToTheHand123 Please forgive me if you've already said that he's beyond communicating with, I don't remember. Is it worth dropping him a note about the hay being a fire risk? Sometimes people just don't think things through.

Yesterday got more earth shifted from back of house to garden so reasonably on track there, and a bit more stuff packed up. Not enough but tbh I lost impetus after gas board said they wont be needing as much access inside on Monday as they said. Still needed but not as urgently.
Aunt staying in B&B for another week, and everything's drying out slowly but surely, and things looking quiet hopeful with neighbors insurance. Fingers very crossed.
Early start and hope to manage lots out of it.

I need to follow this thread. I have a loft with a literal house content which needs to be tackled and a garage which is rammed with stuff.

Welcome @Revelatory come on in! You'll find lots of understanding and encouragement here.

Q. How do you eat an elephant?
A. One forkful at a time.

The theory is good, but not being alone in doing it, is hugely helpful when trying to get through it all, especially in planning, procrastination, processing, accountability, and making sense of some of what drives us (or doesn't)

We’re moving house next year so I have to get on with it now!

Update: Didn't make the inroads I was hoping for, just in too much physical difficulty and pain and couldn't do it. Did manage to create another two sacks to go, so four now waiting to be taken to dump.

Swapped tactics and took a few large light things to (out of town) storage, and dug out lots more boxes. Brought a couple of specific shaped plastic ones and fueled up vehicle. Picked up a load of shelves from (out of town) storage and took them to new temporary storage unit, but then couldn't physically assemble them. Had to just accept I've hit my limits and not push it to the point I can't move, but a bit depressing.

As washing ran late last week, leaving launderette 'till tomorrow to make it work financially, which might give me extra time to try and catch up yesterday.

Today's list includes meeting aunt at hers, cleaning up the gas boards mud swamp outside ours, to stop it getting tracked in, getting the shelves up in temporary storage, more earth moved from the back of the house into the garden, Compost bin (that was attacked by next doors dog) sorted out, and hopefully at least two loads packed and into storage, and if any time left over; get to the dump. Eat, sleep, repeat.
Off to see how much I actually manage...

@Revelatory Well done, that makes you ahead of the game. Many of us end up having and trying to do it all last minute!