The Hoarders Anonymous Thread #7. Keep On Keeping On!

[Solo]

We are a mixed group of likeminded householders that are leading somewhat challenging lives; be that living with too much 'stuff' that we find difficult to deal with, houses that are falling apart (mine included), health issues within the family unit, wider family, or ourselves (myself included) that means sorting out our households is challenging, to say the least. So...

You are all welcome to join us for support, adding your own ideas to help others out, storage ideas, and even tips on actually getting those items out of the house which sounds so simple when you say it, but this part can be so very difficult; we are often attached emotionally to our 'things', afraid of letting things go just in case we need them.
Encouragement and support abound here, and we do not criticise. EVER! We even try not to criticise ourselves as it's not helpful to anyone, but this can be very difficult not to do.

If you are feeling overwhelmed by clutter, mess, disorganisation and generally don't know where to start. If you can't be bothered, but really do want to be bothered. If you think you are a bit lazy, or if you just need to see your highs and lows and everything in between on the screen here, join us, and we will help you. We'll virtually high-five your achievements - small or large, and virtually hug you when the need arises, and if you want a hug, just ask because we are here for you, here for one another because we get it. The art of washing up is sometimes our great achievement of the day, but it's still an achievement.

Welcome to thread #7 of Hoarders Anonymous - Keep On Keeping On!

Thread #6 HERE

Hi everyone.

I am new to this group as I want to help a friend of mine. I didn't visit her in her house for the last 10 years as she feels embarrassed at the state of it. I would happily offer help declutering it but I don't think it's easy.
I would like to understand what brings people to hoard stuff to the point you don't want others to visit you.
I have the opposite approach and feel extremely anxious if anything is out of place (example pair of shoes, paper stuff, clothes, any toys etc). I think it gets worse with age, I am more anxious now than let's say 10 years ago.
My question is: how can I help my friend?

Have you already offered and she declined? If so, that’s her choice, you shouldn’t push it.

IMHO someone who is anxious about anything being out of place is probably not the right person to help her (that sounds rude but it’s not meant to be ).

If you have a car why not offer to do a dump/charity shop run for her as something practical?

Suggest she brings a bag of stuff over to your place and you’ll help her make decisions. Then when you’re done, she takes the keepers home and you deal with the pile for charity and the stuff for the dump.

@TalkToTheHand123 nearly visitor ready - that is epic!!

@CherryMargo glad to see your cherries 🍒 😊

I had the workload and exhaustion you describe last year when we had staff shortages - be kind to yourself, you’ve tackled some big things in the thick of all that. Enjoy noticing the bits you’ve achieved, like replacing cushion covers.

I also have roof issues and so there’s a bag of Christmas stuff in our lounge and I can’t do anything about it.

@moonshaped tell me more about shredding services… paperwork is my nemesis… I used to burn it in a garden incinerator but feel conflicted about doing that now.

@girlswillbegirls what @Miaowse said and have a look at some of the resources members have shared (my personal favourite is ‘a slob comes clean’) - tackling bits outside of your friend’s home initially is a good idea and less overwhelming.

I ended up in this situation by never really having any systems and never decluttering routinely. I have difficulty making decisions and piles of stuff just feel like an overwhelming pile of decisions.

Supporting her to make her own decisions is best, help her build this skill and it will get easier - either in or outside her home, go gently - but YES to taking stuff to charity shop/tip so once decisions are made her part is over, this is the last hurdle and a massive help to remove that for her.

A friend helped me years ago just to tackle clothes/shoes I was never going to wear again, and I still love her and appreciate what she did for me (should have encouraged her back and paid her to do the whole house - I’ve moved a lot of rubbish twice since 😳).

The fact you’re asking how to help says you’re a lovely friend and wishing you good luck and patience.

@Miaowse and @FiniteSagacity
Thank you so much for your suggestions, I'll definitely put them into practice, if she is happy to do so. At least I will make the suggestions to her next time she brings the hoarding up into conversation.

My friend is a lovely person and I would like her to have her home backfthe way it was. She spends a lot of time outdoors and its like this issue of keep having so much stuff overwhelms her.

We sometimes talk about how our own issues must be linked to our past. Her mum was a hoarder.
My own mother was extremely uptight with tidiness and I try not to be as bad (for the sake of my own children). So in a way I feel the connection with her, it seems that js difficult to fight what you are used to as a child, even if you didn't feel comfortable with it.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I'll have a look at the suggested resources now.

@FiniteSagacity I searched for "Shredding Services in my area" and found quite a few companies that do it. The one I am going to use supply sacks which they will either collect or you can take to the site where they will shred it. I had more paperwork than I thought and it took way longer than I anticipated doing it at home. I also looked at incinerators before settling on this.
I really identify with the way you have described your own scenario. No systems and no routine decluttering have led me to this place too. I can't organise, the word "filing" strikes fear in me...
hello @CherryMargo your links at the start of this thread led me to a declutterer/hoarding specialist who helped me start this process. I've had ups and downs, a big down when I first posted here but am feeling much more positive now.

@Girlswillbegirls ‘Miaowse’ and 'Finite' have covered most of it. If she does accept help from you, don’t go in all guns blazing, but some things that may be useful if she's up for being helped..

Most of all ask if she knows what use you could be to her? She may simply not know early on, so if that happens ask again further down the line.

Help sorting garden. Offering to do this while making clear you wouldn’t be needing the loo or entering her home, may be appreciated.
Offer extra bin, recycle bin, garden waste, space so she's less limited
Quietly find out if there are public waste bins near her (& you, if you have car)
Look for electrical waste bins, clothing bins, etc round her. Basically be informed on where and how things can be disposed off, but don't force feed it to her.
Shredding if you have a shredder, and or tearing name and address etc of paperwork so bulk can go to paper recycling if there’s a backlog. Can it be done round yours?
Washing and drying at yours or launderette if she has a lot that needs doing, or it’s what’s stopping her sending stuff to charity.
Look at what doesn't need you to go into her home, for her to get started.

So Sunday laundry happened and a bit more culling of jungle, and got some stuff printed for PIP form. Monday cleared a bit more stuff from work and down to storage, still can’t get at some of it. Then went to routine outpatient appointment and bloods were all over the place, so chucked onto an observation ward. Tuesday got moved onto proper ward. Was expecting to be discharged last night, now working on getting out today. Hey ho!

Cherry Margo good to see you! Glad to hear your roof is potentially fixed.
Really difficult when you just can’t make time and energy no matter what you do.
A thought for your fears over the garage; what do you not need frequently or before winter that is either of little interest to others, or would be annoying but not heart-breaking if anything happened to it? For instance paperwork, filing cabinets, oil radiators etc… One I have learned is to double bag everything before boxing if using garages, if storing anywhere with potential mild damp.
I’d also suggest putting a date when you expect to end the garage contract, on the fridge door. External storage can make the home work, but you run into danger of it becoming long term. Among many, both myself and Solo have got caught with this.

Moonshaped Great progress! Especially without transport.
I doubt the builder’s that bothered. More likely if he thinks there’s a job that will make more profit. IME they actually try and keep both jobs going but back burner you in favor of the better paid/easier one.
Realize it may all be detailed stuff. But going forward with paper shredding- unless it’s detailed documents, a lot of it, all you need to do is tear off the identifying details. I have a paper shredding bag with an envelope down the side, and rip of identifying stuff where easy, into the envelope, the rest into paper recycling, and anything more detailed into shredding bag. So much less accumulates that staying on top of it is easy enough. (One day I’ll be in a position where the shredder doesn’t have things on top of it and detailed stuff can go straight in!) Access or not to bulk hot water can really make a difference. I found a ‘really useful’ file box that could be moved around helped with the filing issues.

Miaowse thank you. I called PIP from hospital and they’ve kindly given me extra time to complete the forms. Apparently, the old question ‘Have there been any changes in your condition?’ includes if you have had to go into hospital. The new one asks it direct for numpties like me!

Finite Sagacity Sorry to hear about your parent. Appreciate how stressful it is.
Re signing stuff, If it helps with hindsight, this is how I strayed from normal common sense over it: It was a weekend I don't think business on w/ends. I’d been ducking them over inspecting aunts’ home, so was on the back foot. It was in an informal setting, them saying it was overdue, (because I’d been avoiding them) no facility to copy and I couldn’t take originals away, but that was presented casually. All presented as a box ticking exercise alongside lots of other bits that clearly were in her interests, it seemed inconsequential to agree. It didn’t occur to me to photograph them!

Regarding joined up medical services. They aren’t. I’m surprised at how much is missing from my hospital files or just wrong, especially communication with GP.

I suspect both Ds and may also have inattentive ADHD, but we both find GP feels there’s bigger things to be concerned with.
‘Analysis paralysis’ distraction, and hyper focus, are all very common round here. I’ve tried devising systems to contain them. Coming here is useful as a getting into gear method. With multiple issues - big bits of paper and spider diagrams, so its all laid out and easier to prioritize from has helped organize.

TalkToTheHand123
Being close to being able to have people over sounds like really good progress. Well done, keep going. Really looking forward to hearing you have welcomed visitors.

Am gratefully out, if knackered, and taking it easy. Today's gains are sent of everything to deal with another big bit of bureaucracy and got a carrier bag of stuff gone, but surprisingly exhausted so calling it a day now, so I have energy for tomorrow.

@Elleherd thanks very much for your suggestions and insight.
It's tricky, I don't want to offend her. She declined several times to meet up in person when I'm visiting or doing anything around her area (we live an hour away). But she texts me quite a lot, that's how I know she wants to be friends. I know she is a bit lonely.
I know her husband tried to make progress when she was in the hospital for a week and also another time visiting her relatives. He really wanted to clear several rooms, (she told me this) and was very stressed out about it. That's why I think I need her to bring the subject first and express she isn't happy about this and that's when I can offer my help whatever way she thinks is best. I have a car and I she doesn't.

It's difficult to understand. I get stressed with stuff. I don't want to have many things, clothes, shoes etc even sometimes receiving presents might stress me out. I do prefer someone taking me for coffee and cake than a thing around my house. I have no attachment to things, with the exception of the crafty things my kids make at school. I'm feel torn, stressed because I don't want to have stuff but feeling awful throwing it away. Solution for me is: I keep one shoe box per child with memories only. The rest, I take a pic and goes for recycling/ donate/bin. Its hard though. But that's the only thing I find hard.

Thanks a million for all your help. I take note with all the suggestions- great idea re garden!

It's difficult to understand if you don't have hoarding disorder, just as anorexia's difficult to understand if you've a healthy relationship with food and body image.

Not everyone here has full on disorder, but I do. I'm an organized hoarder and a clean freak so you'd be looking at something you might not recognise as hoarding, but is actually worse because it's not chaotic, so there's no unused spaces and every storage solution from cupboards to tool boxes to pencil cases, contains serious density! It's embarrassing to be this extreme.

My home is usually quite normal to look at apart from a lot of bookcases, cupboards and drawers, though I currently have different issues to do with sewage flooding and disappearing contractors half way through a major job so we're looking building site currently.

I'd find it hard to accept much help from you because I just know you'd be thinking wtf? no matter how nice you are. But I would be able to accept helpful stuff outside my storage units (ie; taking stuff to charity shops, recycling etc) or home because it's less personal getting help to tackle transport issues, or a garden that's turned to jungle, than the personal contents of a deeply overfull cupboard or storage unit contents, if that makes sense.

There is a thread currently in relationships 'had a baby with a hoarder but i cant cope anymore with him moving in' where I've said a great deal (far too much, but bored in hospital!😊) about the reality and understanding, and there's lots of links to resources - some good some bad. Please don't link the other way around.

Heads up to rest of thread users, especially those new to dealing with things: it's brutal out there, and there's a lot of hate and hyperbole that can drag you down if you're feeling fragile, so I'd advise giving it a miss unless you're confident with where you're at. 🙂

@Elleherd thanks you. So I can see inside the home or inside drawers it's what you call "personal" and that is why it's best to offer help with the garden or transport stuff (I will, thanks for the tip). I never think wtf in houses with lots of stuff, everyone is different.

Of course I can't understand it, I have the opposite feeling about stuff. I think I have a fear of having stuff, I don't know if makes sense. I had a friend saying why I don't have ornaments or more pictures around. It's interesting I think. I grew up in quite an sterile house. I think my house looks more "homely" or would like to think so, but maybe this is what I grew up with.

I do think if you have a lot of stuff or "density" but is tidy so you can clean, there is nothing wrong with it 😉

*Just to add English is not my first language, in case I come across a bit strange the way I express myself.

@girlswillbegirls You may want to look up obsessive compulsive spartanism.

Re how to help; many find it more difficult/embarrassing having others see the situation when it involves personal stuff than impersonal.

Organized hoarding looks better but what's wrong is time and cost to keep the excess in storage, as well as cost, energy, time on travel, constant loading, unloading, and a lot of time and energy to keep an excess of stuff clean, and free from everything from dust to moths etc invading. If things aren't scrupulously clean everything from moths, beetles ants and mice will find it. When they appear other things appear looking for them. Eco systems start.

With lots of stuff boxed in cupboards and drawers, you have to routinely take boxes out and clean walls, shelves and boxes and leave to ventilate to stop mold forming. You have to rotate stuff in storage too. Everything stored has to be boxed, wrapped or vacuum packed. Things like wrapped mattresses have to be checked and potentially re-taped/wrapped every time they're moved. You have to re vacuum pack every time you open something, or through air seep. Drawers jam as vacuum packs have expanded. Cardboard boxes loose rigidity &collapse.

Silly amounts of time go on decisions. Do the fabric scissors live in a scissors box with others and sharps? Or in a box with rotary cutters and tailors chalk? or in the cupboard with boxes of fabric? Others re decide for you, so you pull out the contents of all three possibilities. (they're always in the last one.)

You need a silver permanent marker? Which pens drawer? You'll have to pull out at least a couple of boxes to get to the right one, then find the right pencil case or similar within it, tip out the 50 other markers to find it. Reverse process when done, every time. That of course is if it isn't in the project box you were using it with the other day. Oh hang on, you took that box to storage because the client paused the work... It becomes quicker to buy another pen.🙁

Multiply by 100's of times for nearly every item you need weekly. Now do this with others living there and things not only don't get put back correctly, or at all, but boxes get taken to other rooms and emptied, leading to more time, and potential annoyance on all sides. Being unable to let go is miserable and too much stuff is too much stuff impeding daily living, never mind how it's stored.

And... when you buy that duplicate pen this week you also buy the BOGOF pasta to try and re balance the limited budget.
Following that expose, 🙄I'm off to do more sorting out and de cluttering!

@Elleherd Thanks for your post. I searched the obsessive compulsive spartanism and I meet most of the criteria. I do feel a thrill when discarding posesions and anxiety when new stuff comes in. If anything new (ie pair of shoes for the kids which is necessary), I automatialy start decluterring. And it's definitely linked to anxiety, there is nothing that makes me feel more in peace than doing a decluttering session in a drawer. My DH says it's not normal the frequency I go through things. Before I didn't like to have stuff outside wardrobes etc. but now I like to reduce stuff from cupboards etc. to see them not too full. It's when people tells you it's "unusual" the look of a room when I realise maybe it's too much.

Happy people normally follow a happy medium and can tolerate a bit of mess. I need to get a life, I just don't know how to stop this.

I have a friend like yourself. I do classify her in the category of "collectors" but not hoarder, maybe because everything is tidy. She has a lot of stuff. She travelled extensively around the word specially South America and have lots of lovely things displayed and also stored. And also she has amazing stories. But as you said, she also hates the amount of time reclasifying, dusting etc. and would like to get rid of stuff but feel unable too.

One of my kids is in the collector category. He is a lovely kid. We try to find a happy medium because I don't want to impose the way I am on him (even when I feel desperate inside!). Its difficult to find a happy medium.

Re. my friend other- the one hoarding. I know she is unhappy about this as she mentioned it a few times. I'll meet her im her favorite coffee shop and I'll take it from there. I'll wait for her to mention it to suggest it. I don't want to lose her as a friend or make her feel bad.

Thanks @Miaowse although I've slipped back a bit with the tidying. I'm going to aim to get to bed earlier and eat less as eating too much is making me very lazy. Hopefully can get back to tidying soon.

How has everyone been getting on?

It’s been fine weather in my area so I have multiple loads of clean line-dried laundry to put away.

I’m reading yet another decluttering book - “5 days to a clutter-free house”. It recommends boxing everything up, room by room separated by category & where it needs to go, then sort/unpack at leisure. I think the idea is that you’ll experience the clear surfaces and spaces and you will find it much easier to part with stuff rather than re-clutter the clear spaces.

She recommends doing it in layers: toe to knee (floors and low surfaces), knee to shoulders (tables, kitchen counters, desks, beds etc), shoulders to ceiling (tops of the fridge, tops of wardrobe, high shelves etc), interiors (drawers, cabinets, wardrobes etc), then storage spaces (garages, store rooms etc). She also recommends enlisting a team of helpers and getting it all done in 5 days (!).

A Bitzer weekend update: Not much physical de cluttering, but lots of sorting and getting on top of things.
Transferring tax from old vehicle to replacement got sorted - more complicated than it sounds involving three post office’s, but just have to sit and wait now.
Received and looked the old vehicles destruction notice in the face, deal, accept, move on. Progress for me.
Recovered PIP payments that were frozen because of length of time in hospital and converted to cash before they changed their minds!
Collated lots of bits of paper and got them scanned ready to try and tackle more backed up bureaucratic stuff later this week.
Dug out majority of stamps that need exchanging for new ones. It's a considerable amount. Have to wait for tomorrow to be able to print out form. (Ordinary non-barcoded stamps stop being useable after 31 July 2023, if anyone's unaware)
Repaired a file box that should have been fixed a year ago.
Sorted out a lot of stuff for recycling, but so did everyone else. All recycling bins overflowing, so has to wait to go.
Small amount of gardening before realizing trying to do it in this heat was a bad idea, so small amount to compost heap before settling for thoroughly watering aunts garden to protect good bits from dying as a result of cutting back the jungle shade. Buried a load of old bulbs in a pot, just in case there's any life left in any of them. Netted it with wire against overweight squirrel!
Launderette happened, trying to get curtains done while line drying’s possible, and am wondering if there's any chance of getting a huge rug up and scrubbing it early enough this week, for it to dry. (Probably over optimistic.)
Vehicle got washed, and some stuff sorted towards trying to get ahead on a work project starting end of the week.
Bitzer this and bitzer that, but feeling more in control.

Miaowse Hmmm... maybe there’s more to it, but that 5 day house de clutter method doesn’t actually sound that practical to me, but maybe I’m not understanding it. It sounds more like the approach of a professional organizer with well-practiced teams to hand, rather than an average individual tackling a cluttered home.

It would certainly shock a person into seeing things differently if they went from cluttered rooms to everything in boxes in bare rooms in five days, but I’m suspicious of most peoples ability and energy to both manage that in one swoop, and then carry out the unpacking successfully.

It might result in some stuff getting sorted into better places and maybe some selected as not wanted, but generally it sounds suspiciously like an awful lot of churning, though if you needed to attend to repairs, maybe?

I also wonder where all the space is, to pack the categories of boxes in many houses I’ve seen, never mind the ability to enlist, and then manage, a team of helpers happy to give you five days of their lives.
Maybe in makes more sense in context of the book? What do you think overall?

I have no helpers so I’d have to do it alone and I’m still reading but I can update once I’ve finished it. The idea of removing the visual clutter was very very enticing but I take your point about churning as this basically defers all decision-making (which is probably why it seems so appealing to me!!). I do not have clear walls to line up boxes so I’m not sure I could put this into practice.

it reminded me a bit of those guys who packed up all their possessions in very well labelled boxes, lived amongst the boxes for a while (a month?) and as they needed items they retrieved them from boxes. By the end everything that was still in a box was discarded. V extreme. Was it The minimalists? Can’t remember, but I read the blog years ago.

your weekend was very productive!

I cannot catch up. I found myself reading from December's posts...

Nothing done here, but the gardens are clear(er).

I will return.