Please will you kindly support and advise me, as I try to help a friend sort out his home? THREAD 2

[EatingTheElephantInChunks]

THREAD 2

All constructive posts very welcome, whether you are an old familiar, usually a lurker or completely new to the thread. It would probably be helpful if new posters read my OP and my posts on the first thread before posting - many thanks.

No posts on Thread 2 please until the first thread is completely full - thank you.

Are your friend’s windows visible to others? If so can you imagine how many of those passing by are secretly cheering as they see the improvements? I imagine the mere thought of that would horrify your friend but there is so much good will towards people who struggle with this. There is a small house by me that becomes overwhelmed sometimes but the owner or a helper battle back so suddenly a window is all bright and ornaments are in position. We have a lovely postie and he always stops for an extra chat and the neighbours do the front lawn insisting they love to garden.

Overdue update part four.

The thing I had forgotten, or not...

I have to be honest - finally - and say I hadn't forgotten to update about this bit; it was my guilty conscience and slight embarrassment, preventing me from posting about it. The first part is all good, the last part less so because I cheated and skipped right over a chunk - here goes!

Doing the underside of the kitchen table proved to be a bit of a nightmare, as we always suspected it would, didn't we? It was very time-consuming, with so many hidden nooks and crannies in the way the table is constructed where spiders and moths, their webs and cocoons, lurked. It was also very uncomfortable, crouched under the table on the hard, cold floor and with 'things' dropping on me. I knew a thorough job had to be done, because I didn't want to have to go back to it, and I didn't want it to be a hidden source of insects, especially moths. I did stick at it and I did achieve what I set out to do although, goodness me, I was scruffy, stiff and fed up by the end.

Now, this is where I have to hang my head in shame a bit! Next, I should have done all the chunky, rather elephant-like table legs. I did not. Instead, I just did the very top section of each one, leaving the majority of each leg vacuumed but without the thorough clean and scrub they all desperately need.

So, when I posted with trumpet voluntary about the kitchen table at the end of the first thread, it was without mentioning that I cheated a bit and skipped over finishing the legs. It wasn't that I felt under any pressure to post about being able to sit at the table before the first thread closed. I would have felt absolutely fine to say I hadn't quite made it in time. It was just, after finishing the underside, and feeling fed up and stiff and scruffy, I needed something nice to make me feel better and to show to my friend. Despite all the hard work and time that went into it, finishing the underside of a table is not exactly an earth-shattering chunk to look at! And so, I skated swiftly on and applied the new oilcloth table cloth. We did sit at the table with the lovely cat, flowers, scrambled eggs on toast and tea - but with dirty legs. Don't be too hard on me - with the dresser, they are on the top section of my long to do list and the dirt starts below where the new cloth starts, so is not spoiling it.

There, I've said it and I feel much better for getting it off my chest. I think we're up to date now.

Take care everyone. Until next time.

You are doing a wonderful job, My friends is a social worker she seems to get most of her clients from the hospital after the have fallen ill or fallen over in there homes. The ambulance crew usually report that the home is in a terrible state and unfit for them to go back to. So when in the hospital they get there first social worker. She says it so heartbreaking so many people end up on there own with one friends or family living in squalor. Also because of Covid she was given a long list from GP,s of OAP,s to go and check , she found quite a few in a very sad state, with homes like your friend. She finds it all very distress.

Popping in so I don't lose the thread! I'm at mums, decluttering, and falling behind on reading updates!

Ele you know what, I don't think any of us would blame for skipping the bottom of the table legs after the slog of cleaning the underside. Plus being able to sit at the table and enjoy it will have been far more of a boost than cleaning the legs! It's nice that your friend can now do their washing up indoors. Finding ways that they can take pride and pleasure in their home again is a definite way to help them keep it in a cleaner state going forward. Have a good weekend. 🐘🐘

My table extends. I once found having not extended ut for years that one of the kids must have slopped loads of milk into the extending section. When it did extend the vits that weren’t crusty white were crusty green and black. I can’t say as it had Bothered any of our lovely meals. Shame it was MIL who found it though!

Wow @EatingTheElephantInChunks you have been doing amazingly since I last checked in on this thread.
I'm so happy for your friend that his kitchen is coming together and he is starting to be able to enjoy his home again. I am also glad to hear that the Gin fund is continuing to be added to.
I love sorting people's houses and regularly get roped in by friends to help in their house and wish I could help you too.
Good luck with your continued "clunking" and I look forward to reading your amazingly written updates. Have some and

I remember reading your first thread. I’m sorry to say something which disrupts the complacent mood of the thread, but - you’re giving an awful lot to this person. Time, energy. You seem proud of it. Respectfully - are you ok? Is this filling a void in your life? How much effort is your friend making themselves? I do understand the mental block that people sometimes get. But there’s a point at which they have to live their own life. Or are you just going to spend the rest of your life going round in circles cleaning for this person? What about you? Where is your life?

No one can possibly blame you for not doing the legs: this is such an enormous task that a bit at a time is the only way it can be done and the end of each task has to be such that you can come back and carry on with the next big. It's an extraordinary act of kindness to still be working on this so many months and years after you began.

Despite a slight delay in cleaning the table legs,
I can’t imagine anyone here has anything but kind thoughts of you.

Honestly, Nelly, if it were me I’d have either been insisting I just got enough of the main mess cleared to get a service in so someone else thoroughly scrubbed the table - underside & legs - or I’d have been insisting on getting a new table altogether!

So you’ve nothing to feel guilty about. And actually I’m not sure you’re not now at the stage where actually you could have a bit of help to do things like that sort of task. Now the kitchen is functional but not a health hazard, where places need a deeper clean (like table legs and dressers and so on) you’d be so much better served using your energy on the places where your personal expertise - being trusted by your friend to make judgements on what’s important and what’s not - is so valuable.

Anyone can scrub, after all! And what you want - and your friend needs - is to get the house (or a decent chunk of it) to a stage where you can get a bigger support team involved for your friend. A regular cleaner and so on.

I started off thinking, I'll put that to one side as someone will use that or I'll bag those up and dust or wash them at a later date, but experience and posters on this thread have helped me to be much better at putting those things straight into the rubbish or recycling bag. They have served their purpose or not here for my friend, the time and space - physical space and head space - is more important, and the elephant - or mammoth, as Filo would say - here I am eating is just too big - especially on top of my other commitments in life - to faff around to that extent. See herd, I do listen - thank you.

I smiled reading this! As I think my very first contributions were to tell you to be ruthless with the chucking .

Onwards! Hope the re-do of bathroom/bedroom doesn’t take long. Perhaps you can start to work towards an agreement with your friend about when others can come in? In my experience people aren’t too phased by clutter piles but would be horrified by unhygienic kitchen/bathroom - so if those are being kept clean and liveable after all your hard work then your friend needn’t feel ashamed. And more Team Nelly members would lighten your load and give your friend incentive to maintain good habits - a virtuous circle…

I'm with Nutty on this - especially as the kitchen can be accessed without coming through the rest of the house, it feels like a good time to encourage your friend to have a regular cleaning service.
A cleaner could start off just doing the kitchen, without coming through the main house & then your friend could get used to this.
Once the hallway is clear, a cleaner could keep on top of areas you've already cleared, freeing up your precious time for chunking.

Hello again everyone and I hope you've had a nice weekend.

I am here, enjoying a rare bit of peace and a nice sit down after breakfast and the early rush, having fed our own expectant gang of birds and on my second cup of tea, with an update.

The voile curtain arrived nice and quickly in the correct length and I was able to put it up at the kitchen window. The blind can be left up in the daytime now, letting in lots of natural light and giving a good view of the garden and wild birds. There was a couple of firsts here too. Not only has my friend been able to do the washing up looking out of the window, but I was also able to do the task - tusk? - of putting up the curtain in my home clothes! The whole area I was working in was so clean, I didn't need to get changed into my chunking attire - technical term - to do it.

That changed though when I decided to 'quickly pop the shorter voile curtain up' famous last words in the main bedroom, having it to hand and having seen how much doing the kitchen window had improved the look of that part of the back of the house. I knew the bedroom window would need a thorough clean, but I hadn't quite realised just how much it had suffered with damp and condensation over the years. This was silly of me really, because looking back all the windows I have tackled have been in a similar state. It was back on with the mask, two pairs of gloves and other general chunking attire. After opening the curtains and taking down the blanket used to keep out draughts, I was thankfully able to work in daylight and part-open the window to let in some ventilation. I couldn't easily get DHenry into the room, so instead I just had to wipe away the largest cobwebs in the window. Again, I would have had the same issue with room for a cloth and bucket, especially with the obvious need for so many changes of water, so I ended up using some very large and strong anti-bacterial floor disposable wipes from my friend's stores. They actually worked very well, but it was quite a job. The areas I had thought were dark, exposed wood, where paint had worn or flaked away, were all actually black mould and the intricate construction of the large window frame meant there were so many nooks and crannies to get into to get it clean - a little bit like the underside of the kitchen table. I hope the frame can be saved, but it will need some work to it inside and out to prevent the wood rotting away and the glass falling out. My friend remembers watching blue tits pecking at the putty in the winters, and it shows! Still, when I had finished it looked so much better, as dust, cobweb and mould-free as I could get it and with so much more light able to shine in. Unfortunately I couldn't clean the outside of the window as it wouldn't open wide enough - a future outside job for the professionals, rather than me balanced precariously on a very tall ladder see, I'm listening again. I was happy it was fit to put up the new voile curtain but the only issue was - how on earth do you cut a curtain wire to size?! I certainly couldn't do it with anything I had to hand, so ended up cutting through the plastic coating - using the Psycho-esque carving knife last seen in action with the DAs - and bending the wire over in a temporary fix so that I could get the little hook in the end. Once up though, it did look so much better from in and outside. It will also allow me to work in that room in future in natural light and with some fresh air.

I had intended to get on with the dresser or table legs in the kitchen, but the limited timing of when I was free meant that it would have clashed with my friend needing to use the kitchen and - really wanting him to be able to enjoy doing that in peace - I decided to make a start on another chunk in the main bedroom, to add to the progress of the window. I started on the floor in front of the window and into the corner by that side of the bed. I quickly filled two large sacks with any obvious recycling and one with any obvious rubbish I could immediately see. When I went to take these outside, I realised I had 'painted myself into a corner' as the bags were too large to get through the bedroom door - which only partially opens at the moment - and so I had to decant everything into smaller bags. We live and learn, but I felt I'd made a rookie mistake there and should know better by now! Next, I focussed in on and just in front of a once-lovely cupboard which had been used as a bedside table and was piled high, including with lots of used teabags. I reflected - somewhat wryly - that this is obviously one of the things we have in common - a love of tea! Two more bags of recycling, one of rubbish and one for compost later, and having saved some books, crockery and cutlery, I was able to clean the top of the cupboard and half way down it and clean the bedside lamp. Luckily, the cupboard top had been protected by newspapers - back in 2012! - and it all seems to be in good condition. I found and cleaned a spare tray from the kitchen and was able to put that on top to protect the cupboard in future - better than old newspapers! I ran out of time and steam at this point.

I put the lamp back in place and, although I am not down to floor level, that little chunk together with the window is another small step in the right direction to - hopefully one day - another functional and comfortable room.

I'll have to come back with some replies, but in the meantime - wishing you a good week.

Well done on the new chunking! A really good idea to do that window first. To me there's something quite symbolic about letting in light at the start, it feels like you've set the scene for what haopens next.

My suggestion would be to clear the space to get the door fully open, even if you don't scrub and clean that area when cleared.

Sort of same rationale as doing the window, symbolic opening up of the room.

Must be great to see the little cabinet appear and look nice again

You've been cleaning this person's house for three years AND you're a carer with kids of your own? How are you managing it it?

Ele you need a pair of tin snips for your chunking armoury. They come in handy for a lot of things and save you knackering proper scissors or knives

Or you can use the wire cutting bits on the side of a pair of pliers.

Well done @EatingTheElephantInChunks. I've also been helping a friend today sort her house but nowhere on the same scale as yours. It involved alot of folding and sorting of bedding and towels etc. We then enjoyed some and . Hope you also have had some restorative food and drink.

Wow, @EatingTheElephantInChunks! I've just reread the last thread and caught up with the end of that and this one, and was cheering you on through the DAs - what a difference! It's so good to hear about your friend enjoying his kitchen.

As @HellonHeels said, having a clean window feels so symbolic.

Thinking about your friend's feelings about allowing other people to enter the house - I wonder if it might be worth doing a 'speed sort' of the hall? (I realise that it is very unlikely to be actually speedy!) Not cleaning at all, just doing the top level sort of recycling/rubbish/keep. It sounds as if a plumber/glazier/carpenter might be needed at fairly short notice, and you would then have done the kitchen, stairs, hall, landing, bathroom and temporary bedroom, which means that in extremis someone else would be able to come in (with the other doors firmly closed, of course!) without distressing your friend as much?

Hello again everyone. Just back with a quick update.

Yesterday's plan did not go according to, well, plan. My idea was to 'quickly' do another chunk in the main bedroom so that the start I had made continued in there, followed by returning to the kitchen to focus on either clearing and cleaning the dresser or cleaning the table legs.

It started well in the main bedroom. I did a chunk alongside the bed, along from the bedside cupboard I had already done. As quickly as I could, I put all the recycling in this chunk - mainly newspapers and supplements here - in piles by the wall, filling a bag with any rubbish as I went along. Underneath, I found a squashed new rolled up wool rug - which had once been a sale bargain, looking at the ticket - and something very small treasured by my friend and sadly lost, and so it was lovely to be able to reunite him with that. I am hoping that the rug will still be ok and not damp or moth-ridden when it is unrolled, as it would look good and provide warmth and comfort on the wooden floor upstairs or in the sitting room hopefully, one day. The recycling I left in situ to add to and will take out closer to the collection day. I know it is better to take things out straight away and usually do, but I wanted to save my back and a little time, and can now trust my friend not to go in there and 'rescue' things. I saved him the four magazines/supplements in good condition I know he would like to keep - these were a drop in the ocean of what is going to the recycling bin - and luckily he does trust me to do that. Very, very gradually - another drop in the ocean here - the main bedroom is beginning to look less forlorn and like someone cares. I was reflecting on your earlier posts, Heels, about letting in the light with the windows and fully opening the door. As well as the symbolism, which I really like the idea of - thank you - on a practical level clearing immediately behind the door so that it can fully open will speed things up - I currently have to slowly squeeeeeze in and out - and let me get the vacuum cleaner in.

I went down to start on the kitchen but found events had overtaken me - the mountainous range along the wall from the hall door to the Moth Unit had started to avalanche. Whether this had just happened naturally or a guilty purty is responsible, I can not say for sure! All I know is that a certain purty has recently taken to sitting atop the maintain range to get a good view of the birds out of the window and of what is on the table. I will let you decide, but personally I shook my fist in a feline direction.

So that was the rest of my time resorted - thank you, Puss. The first few layers were easy enough, as these were boxes and bags I had sorted out when doing earlier chunks and put there until I can move them to their rightful places. Luckily I could just carry these outside as it was dry and sunny again at last. I was then back in the territory of gloves, then double and then triple, eventually on my trusty kneeling pad and then brandishing my garden spade, with the usual moths, woodlice and spiders in abundance and even a small worm at ground level. Just about everything in this section dated only from about 5-7 years ago but had to be thrown away rather than saved or recycled because of the damp and insects. I have become more accustomed to throwing away 'new' food, books, gifts and clothes, but it is still a shame. I then vacuumed everything, including the ceiling, wall, disused radiator, skirting board and door. So many cobwebs! I gave the door, radiator and wall a quick first wash down with the usual mop, pan scrub and solution of washing up liquid and disinfectant to get rid of the worst - I had previously only been able to mop part of the door before doing this chunk - and mopped the floor twice. It all needs washing down and mopping again, but the door was quite intricate and time-consuming and by this time I had had enough. It's not just realising I am running out of time, or how hungry, thirsty, tired and achy I feel - I also notice I start to rush things, my standards drop and I get accident prone and grumpy when I get to this point and so I know it's time to call it a day. I tidied up and brought everything in from outside, making sure my friend could still access the kitchen and I departed.

Talking of accident prone, it really was 'one of those days' as well as the avalanche. Picking up a sack of cat litter from near the bottom of the mountain range, the bottom had disintegrated with the damp and all ten litres cascaded out onto the floor. It was a Cat Litter Cat-astrophe. And just as I was clearing all that up, it slowly began to dawn on me that I was also hearing quite heavy rain - I had to dash out and pile everything under the large garden parasol to stop it getting even more wet, because at that point there was no easy room for it all inside. It never rains, but it pours cat litter And, and, and, my gloves leaked - all three pairs of them - on one hand, and so my perfum de jour for many jours, I fear, will be strong disinfectant. Don't get me started on the broken mop.

But, by the time I went home to my family - who thankfully had waited to eat with me, and there was a mug of sweet tea and then comfort food and a glass of wine or two to stretch out and recover with - the last large area of floor in the kitchen was clear and clean-ish and the hall door fully opens. I just have to find somewhere to put everything now (!) and next stop is hopefully the dresser - which luckily will provide the right place for some things when cleared - and table legs. I am also eyeing up the old washing machine to get rid of that but - fear not! - that will definitely only happen with help and I will definitely not be trying to balance a large washing machine on a skateboard or doing any moonlight DA wrestling - I promise! I did get an apology, by the way, and a promise of help next time. There was a misunderstanding, apparently.

I will come back with replies but, until then, take care all.

Underneath, I found a squashed new rolled up wool rug - which had once been a sale bargain, looking at the ticket - and something very small treasured by my friend and sadly lost, and so it was lovely to be able to reunite him with that. I am hoping that the rug will still be ok and not damp or moth-ridden when it is unrolled, as it would look good and provide warmth and comfort on the wooden floor upstairs or in the sitting room

How lovely! Maybe some preventative mothballs ought to be on the shopping list, just in case? Better safe than sorry etc.

I totally relate to the cat-litter catastrophe (on top of the cat-induced avalanche). Sometimes things happen at the worst time!

Looking forward to the bedroom-door-opens update

Do you mind if I ask a question, Nelly? No need to answer if intrusive, just ignore and pass along, I shan’t be offended!

How old is your friend/what stage of life are they at? I’m just thinking that now that I have a better picture in my head of the type of house, it sounds so substantial and tricky a property for one person to manage - regardless of other more difficult issues. It’s not an easy-to-keep-clean 3-bed 70s box, or whatever. Intricate doors, period furniture, fireplaces, stone floors, single glazed windows…
What do you think is viable in the future for your friend? Living there independently for the next 10-15 years, or living there with support, or moving somewhere easier to manage? I expect it’s not something that’s easy to raise or easy for your friend to think about but do you yourself have a sense of what’s likely/reasonable?

I’m just thinking that I’d feel overwhelmed taking care of and doing maintenance on the sort of property you’re describing, over the long-term, if I was single, and I’ve got no additional barriers to overcome. Whereas a modern 2-bed property would be much less overwhelming in terms of keeping house.

As I say - don’t answer if too intrusive. I absolutely respect this thread as the safe space for you to talk about what you need to discuss so don’t let this derail that, if it feels tricky to think/talk about.

to you too, Nutty! Sorry you have had your own similar bad days. Good idea - can you recommend any good mothballs?

No mothball recs, I’m afraid - but I’ll have a Google for you.

Today, I discovered a pair of kids wellies long since replaced (at cost) but much searched for - I knew we had them- that my DH had “tidied” into an obscure cupboard in an odd place in an attempt to be helpful well over a year ago, and in doing so unearthed several more things to be rehomed/charity-shopped, and in doing so blocked my own path back to where I needed to be. So I empathise with the making a bigger mess nature of things!