#4 - Hoarding, Sorting, Organising, Friendship, Understanding. All On One Thread.

[Solo]

Are you a hoarder? Are you in a mess, untidy, disorganised? A bit lazy with housework? Are you are ill and not coping with the housework? Are you totally overwhelmed? Are you are emotionally attached to items for whatever reason and can't let them go? Are you unable to just ask someone in for a cuppa at a moments notice or do dread the meter reader asking for access?
Do you find yourself nodding whilst reading any of this? If you have a combination of any or all of these things or something completely different, please come and join us. There is no judging. We have something in common here and we have a common goal. We share our ideas and we share our disappointments no matter how big and our celebrations no matter how small. We cheer one another along and drag the drowners from the depths of despair.

Join us; we don't bite! Welcome to thread number 4.

@CherryMargo it's such a balancing act isn't it; I could make the house cleaner and tidier every evening, but then I have no time to reply to emails/ contact friends/ update MN, which makes me resentful because I have no (virtual) social life and no fun. But then the house gradually gets worse and worse, which makes me stressed. No idea how to improve this apart from when the DC can finally return to school/ spend time with PIL to give me a break...

@GlumyGloomer I have to put everything in the loft to escape the DC's clutches they're just not old or careful enough not to destroy stuff that catches their eye. I had a sad dream the other night whereby I was out socialising with work friends; it just made me resentful that I can't work at the moment because of them (and DP being useless), the fact that even if I was working I couldn't go out socialising like I used to, and that DP moaned the other day that he hasn't had a night out with friends for six months now. I pointed out that I haven't had one for six years - he tried to point out the error in that statement but there isn't one, because I never do! This is a long-winded way of saying that I understand your resentment about the box room, because for me that's just one part of how having DC has taken over my life in a way I didn't anticipate

Is there anywhere else you could store your books @SingToTheSky if you think you might use them at some point in the future? A loft, shed, someone else's house...? At least that way it'd get them out of your house and give you space for tidying other stuff into, and you can keep a note of what's where in case you ever do need them. I had to leave loads of photo albums in a friend's shed at one point as I didn't want to bin them (this being in the days before digital photos) but didn't have enough storage as the box was enormous.

@Miaowse every time I clear a surface DP obviously thinks "aha, somewhere to put all my random rubbish on!" so I too would rather have no spare space. Yet if you ask him he will swear that he NEVER clutters anywhere, indeed has no clutter, and in fact Marie Kondo would be put to shame by his minimalism

Tough day here today, DS1 (borderline ASD at last assessment) has pushed me to the edge. He's suffering from a lack of routine with his schoolwork and activities being off but this afternoon was just moan, whinge, whine, meltdown... and repeat. I ended up ignoring him and leaving him out of the bedtime routine as I was so utterly fed up with him ignoring me and then lashing out when asked to do anything; it eventually led to another meltdown (this one tiredness-related) as he enjoys the bedtime routine, but I was just beyond caring by then. We did make it up and I cuddled him to sleep but I am so sick and tired of his lack of attention span, outbursts, not being able to take both DC out for any length of time by myself etc etc. It's tough enough logistically with twins but when you have one who still acts very much like a toddler with the tantrums, messing around, not listening etc it becomes pretty much impossible... and I don't think anything will get better until he goes back to school, which has made me feel very down.

Haha @ClaraTheImpossibleGirl my DH always complains that I do that too (fill a clear space instantly).

@ClaraTheImpossibleGirl I'm guilty of recluttering any cleared space above dd2's reach as I'm just constantly trying to get stuff away from her, then I never go back and sort it out later like I mean to.
We don't have a loft. Our house has a loft conversation, which Dh has claimed as his study/office/r&r room. Needless to say all his stuff is nicely arranged and displayed, safe from the toddler.
Sorry you had a bad day, that sounds so tough. I hope things are a little better today. I totally hear you on the unhelpful dh front. Mine also has a shocking case of double standards when it comes to childcare. It sucks and I will be back to moan more later.

To continue, I've not had a night out since dd1 was born either. I've managed the odd childfree lunch with friends but that's about it as Dh categorically will not put the kids to bed. In other areas he's not so bad, but at 7PM he clocks off and short of medical emergency I'm on my own until at least 10am the next day (on weekends. Work days we might not see him until lunchtime).
We've also not been on holiday in six years, so all the moaning about covid travel restrictions makes me feel a bit
The absolute winner though was my generally lovely but affluent and somewhat oblivious friend telling me (pre covid obvs) that they were having to cut back this year so they booked all their holidays in the January sales. Now they had no money for the rest of the month and did I have any advice for managing . That was 2019, but it's stayed with me rather.
To sum up all the waffle the kids have cost me an awful lot too. As I write this dd1 is shouting that she wants to throw me in the bin because I'd like to get dd2 down for a nap (which is mission impossible in itself.)
Kids are tough.

@GlumyGloomer and @ClaraTheImpossibleGirl, wow, I would not be able to keep my sanity if I had no holidays or nights out for SIX YEARS 😱 You both have my great admiration and respect for staying strong! 🙌

Meanwhile, I’ve started to build a personal Control Journal which is a 15-step process. The steps can be done in any order, and so far, I’ve completed steps 2, 3, 4 and 11. My Control Journal will be 100% digital and accessed via a PC and a smartphone, so I’m skipping step 1.

Step 11 (Basic Weekly Plan) was a revelation in a way – I’ve realised that there are only three days every week (at most) when I can find time to tackle my long-term goals like sorting my hoard or learning new skills/gaining new knowledge, etc. The thing is, to make these three days available I will have to sacrifice all of my hobbies and social activities.

Other four days of the week are there to run essential errands and maintain what I’ve already achieved. If I don’t, most of the progress will be lost in a matter of days.

No wonder why it takes me ages to achieve even the simplest of goals 😢

@CherryMargo that journal looks really interesting, thanks for the link. It looks like the sort of project that once you've put in the background work - which might be loads or a little - it should only need revising every so often, is that right? Once the DC are back at school I might look at reusing my Filofax for something similar; I use the diary on my phone now and don't really need it! Mind you assuming that they actually go back on March 8th, they'd only be at school for three weeks before the Easter holidays, which at this rate will only just about be enough to get the house slightly cleaner

Whoa @GlumyGloomer. Your DH won't help with bedtime at all? What possible excuse does he have?! My DP is utterly useless at bedtimes - he's spent so many evenings letting/ encouraging the DC to mess around that they don't listen to him at all when he tries to get them to sleep - but in his head he's Jo Frost I'm completely with you on the mornings though. Even when the DTs were tiny and needed feeding every 4 hours (bearing in mind that a feed for two babies can easily take an hour as well) he very rarely helped at night and even less often let me have a lie in; I think maybe three or four times in their first year. Even now he'd like to lie in for an extra hour or two after we get up, then spend an extra hour or so faffing around upstairs before finally joining us downstairs, by which time the DC are bouncing off the walls with energy and need to go out!

I really miss work, meeting friends, nights out.... I have an occasional child free coffee during the day with a friend that works shifts (or I did last term), maybe meet another friend once every few months for a child free dog walk at the weekend, and I used to meet another friend twice a year for a pizza on a Sunday lunch time. That's the sum total of my socialising. I just feel like someone grim faced who has so little fun, deals with kids squabbling all the time and generally has no life and very few social skills any more. No wonder I went mad again at the DC today when they turned the living room into an absolute tip and wouldn't help tidy it up... all technology has been removed and there were no bedtime stories. I am utterly fed up at doing all the bloody cleaning and tidying!

Rant over for now but I hope everyone else had a better day than me...

@ClaraTheImpossibleGirl there's been a variety of excuses, usually work based. At the moment he needs the evenings for job hunting. Basically though he doesn't want to and I can't make him.

@CherryMargo sounds like your doing a great job getting organized. That's definitely more thinking than I can manage right now.

I cleared a shelf in the hall, mostly of rubbish I'm ashamed to say, and the landing windowsill. It's nice to see some clear space, even though I know it won't last. The toddler continues to defeat me.

Sorry about the lack of bedtime support 🤬

I’ve done fuck all decluttering since the flooring arrived. Totally run out of steam!

@ClaraTheImpossibleGirl yes, it is exactly that 😉 The journal requires quite some time to build, and once it is done it will serve as a guide for daily chores. It would require updating if, for example, the diet or family circumstances were to change at some point. But the core structure would remain the same.

I’m implementing the Control Journal together with the Getting Things Done method, and they complement each other very well! What I’m trying to achieve is to free my mind from the need to remember everything, and to put most of my chores on autopilot. Fingers crossed!

Wishing everyone a nice and hopefully relaxing weekend! 💐

@GlumyGloomer

Miowse I used to have perfect depth bookcases, I think they were from homebase. They're still in my parents spare room, being used to store bulk bought consumables. I've accepted that lovely bookcases are not in my future, or at least would be so far off that there's no point in waiting. I sold more books today, in my quest to cut down to an amount that can live in under bed storage. I'm down to the really hard decisions now. There are books which, if I'm being really honest I'm not really desperate to read again, but getting rid of them feels like sacrilege. It's irrational, but I feel like I'm erasing my past almost. I also feel resentful that I have to cram everything I value into a little box room, because anywhere else I could put stuff is fair game for the kids to destroy They aren't bad, I'm just lousy at enforcing boundaries. Sing that sounds like a lot going on, don't push yourself too hard. Cherry yep, me too. I can do one thing well or everything badly. It's a shame I always get forced into the latter.

With books, I’ve started writing about them when I’ve read them, to make it easier to let them go.

I do the date started, date finished and just a couple of lines of what I thought of it. Helps remember them instead of them just being erased like you said.

That’s a good idea @1990s.

@1990s what a lovely idea! I post on the reading threads here for much the same reason. I'm not much help with the book decluttering as I have loads in the loft it's a bit out of sight, out of mind - if I had them on a bookcase I'd probably get bored of them more quickly and sell/ give them away.

It's such a good idea to 'autopilot' chores @CherryMargo. That was what I was aiming for when I was (almost) on top of the house but lockdown and the DC at home has put paid to it for now I'm so utterly exhausted and fed up with the whole situation, and very little energy for any basic cleaning and tidying, let alone any proactive decluttering.

@GlumyGloomer I'm fuming on your behalf Does your DH not care at all that the whole burden is on you? I have to say it's only recently when I've reached the end of my patience tether and put my foot down that DP has actually noticed how bloody fed up I am with everything. My DC are a bit older than yours and fully capable of tidying up their mess, but they won't, so all technology privileges have been removed until they do! DP's uselessness is part of the reason that we haven't had any more DC; I just couldn't face up to the challenges of toddler twins + a newborn on my own

It does make me sad though when I talk to other mums who are able to go for a night out with their friends (obviously not now!), a spa day or even spend the night away from their kids - this is something I couldn't even contemplate with DP being as unhelpful as he is! Before we had the DC I would have sworn that he'd be incredibly hands on, happy to do his fair share of childcare, let me have some freedom etc. But I would have been wrong

@ClaraTheImpossibleGirl I don't blame you, two of different ages has been bad enough, I can't imagine managing twins with so little help. Dd1, after being a difficult baby was a delight at 2, hence the questionable decision to have another. Dd2 was a lovely baby, (apart from night sleep) so the first year wasn't so bad. However, at 4 dd1 is getting difficult again (lockdown most certainly not helping) and dd2 has turned into an absolute terror, and I frequently feel I made a mistake having both or sometimes either of them. Then I feel horribly guilty of course, but I just can't help missing my old life.

Posted too soon. I would never have imagined Dh would be like this either. His own father was borderline abusive, and he seemed so keen to be a good dad. The problem is his idea of that is to never get angry or show any negative emotion. The only way he can manage that is to run away when they get too annoying. He's basically the resident version of a disney dad. In his head it's fair to make me deal with all the shit because he's working to support us, which he frequently doesn't like doing. What'll happen when I manage to get a job again I don't know. That's a couple of years off though.

After all that negative stuff I have a positive update. Dh spend pretty much the whole day being useful! He cleaned the living room and made a significant dent on the kitchen. Loads of junk out, so happy days. I also found a couple of boxes I can use for further book selling

That’s great glumy!

I have made a bit of progress today - found the energy to tidy a few things and threw away some random stuff.

Hi, I haven't been on here for ages, but I had a bit of success today tackling the "hoard", which had been really depressing me (there is no avoiding it in lockdown is there?) For all the usual reasons I had been blaming it on the other people in the house and the decisions they had been refusing to make or their wilful "blindness" to the accumulation
However today, I had plenty of time, my children aren't any trouble timewise, at uni or busy, and I was forced to look at my own habits, mind set again.
I've been through this so many times but the hoard is so extensive and I keep adding to it inadvertently with memorabilia school work books.

So today I dug deep, admitted to myself I could live without certain much loved children's books on the shelves and put them in a cardboard box. Not to chuck you understand, but just to feel the "space" that taking them out of bookshelves. Then I jettisoned various books I have been meaning to read but won't and put them in a big sack to recycle. I reckon they are inanimate, I bought them second hand and they are doing me more harm cluttering house than I am doing them harm getting them out of the house, whatever happens next to them.

Really hard, it is an incredible battle against my pre-existing mindset, that I am validated by all these sentimental and intellectual attachments. But the clutter is taking away my choices and my decision making ability, it isn't my friend, even if each book feels like a friend I am about to make or have made.
Anyway, shelves look so much better, and I can see the floor of my study. Just a tiny step in right direction.

I used to be so miserable about the mess and clutter and "sorting" when my children were small, (also had twins), and no time to tackle anything, but looking back there are so many happy memories and tbh they didn't care about the mess, as long as there was space to play, meals, and a good-tempered mum, so you are all doing brilliantly, just remember that, and no one is "failing". I think we judge ourselves so harshly. At least in lockdown I can see I'm the only person who IS judging the mess or organising.

I'm also pleased with myself for throwing away my much loved India Knight collection, my Robertson Davies collection a few years ago. I still have happy memories of reading the books but I don't regret that they have gone, it was an experiment to throw them but it has been fine. Try decluttering one set of paperbacks and see how it feels...it can be surprising how it doesn't hurt as much as you think.

Hit on a new tactic...I put a book on the breakfast table and say, this is an obscure novel by x, are you interested in reading it. If he says no, I recycle it. It is such a relief to make decisions, even tiny ones. Mind you he hung on for dear lifelife to the battered milkpan...we might need it etc...

Hi nettle nice to see you! I remember you but have name changed.

Sounds like great progress you’re making! Every decision is a win.

I managed to throw some stuff yesterday and tidy some more. A lot of our clutter is actually just misplaced toys etc like like wooden bricks and duplo that get left around making mess. I’m getting on top of that more now.

I’ve got a plan for using a few things before getting rid, for entertaining my 3yo, that way she can do messy play with things that can be chucked rather than needing to be cleaned up. It’s also satisfying my guilt over the waste, as I know they’ll have a little use (things like an old wooden puzzle that isn’t good enough to pass on).

Haven’t started the books yet, I need to gather a decent amount of books/games to make a selling post worthwhile.

I have/had two Robertson Davies sets - the Deptford Trilogy and the Cornish Trilogy. I think at least one went to charity in a previous cull. I remember loving them when I first read them, but on re-reading I couldn’t get engrossed (maybe a sign of sleep-deprived brain atrophy!).

I'm so glad I found this thread! I'm on a bit of a mission because the clutter and mess in my house has reached ridiculous levels - partly because I have two kids, partly because DH is a bit of a hoarder and has a tendency to do half a job then leave it for ages, and partly because I'm just shit at keeping on top of things!

Today I cleared out our bedroom, the unofficial dumping ground for random crap. 20 minute chunks between homeschooling and dealing with the kids and the general day to day cleaning. Six bags of rubbish, a massive pile of laundry to work through (not dirty clothes exactly, just left on the floor and walked over for ages!) and I can finally see the floor again. Just waiting for my bedding to come out of the dryer so I can make the bed, and it'll be done! I'm exhausted and sore but it was so worth doing.

That is great to hear thump, my bedroom gets v neglected, and then when it is cleaned, it is a heavenly retreat. I have to confess that in desperation a year ago I moved all my clothes downstairs because they never got put away properly in my bedroom drawers. I now get dressed in my study, which is odd, but the study is next to the washingmachine so very streamlined Only in lockdown!!