yet another argument about DP's hoarding. How do I deal with it?

[UnderThePile]

Today's argument was triggered when I asked him to go through his spice collection as I can't fit any shopping in the kitchen. We have a rotating spice rack, he has had it for over 5 years (must be past their use by) it's an enormous contraption, holds about 25 jars, I despise it. In addition, an enitire kitchen cupboard is full of spices. It's ridiculous. We will never eat enough food to use them all! I don't understand it.

The house of full of crap. Not only his, granted, but he has the main collection of crap! He seems to collect clothes, shoes, leaflets, bits of paper, ugly ornaments, magazines, kitchen utensils, DVDs... The list goes on. He's a huge consumer. I think it stems from his mother. She has a large house full of things she has bought that she will never use. Rooms are unusable due to her hoard. I am terrified we are going to end up the same.

I hate clutter. It takes forever to clean around it all, the house always looks a tip, I am allergic to dust and I blame the piles of his stuff for my constant sniffling and sneezing. I don't have time or the motivation to dust his shit everyday!

One of our small rooms is full of stuff. Some of it is useful stuff eg.the vacuum cleaner, steam cleaner, ironing board. The rest of it is untouched, unused bits and pieces. These bits and pieces take up 4 large shelves and two thirds of the floor. It's depressing.

He's excruciatingly sentimental. Holds on to cinema tickets, day out tickets, useless receipts, leaflets, business cards. The loft is full of towels, clothes, shoes, books, all of which he "may need one day". He even has wage slips from 8 years ago. His mother also saves EVERYTHING. Every bit of schoolwork and craft he has ever done. It seems genetic!

I want to spring clean. I don't want to have to clean piles, move piles and re-pile piles to clean!

He never gets rid of anything. When I bring it up, we argue. Why do hoarders hoard? Is there a way to stop the arguments and get a happy, clutter free home?

Yes.

You would need to adapt it for a committed hoarder, as some things just aren't logistically possible, but the main principles are sound.

(The above is in reply to Veronica about the Kondo book)

I am a bit of a hoarder. Please don't just chuck stuff out. It's something that I imagine your DH will find very distressing and it won't help your relationship at all.

I can't explain why there are things I can't get rid of. I just know that if I get rid of them then I will regret it and I won't be able to stop thinking about that particular thing. I'm better with stuff that has been bought more recently. Stuff from my childhood I just can't get rid of. It drives my husband insane. He sort of understands that it's difficult for me to get rid of stuff and I have to do it in my own time, although he doesn't understand why. I don't really understand why either to be honest.

I've watched some of those hoarder programmes (I'm not that bad!) and they seem to suggest that hoarding stems from a traumatic event. The only thing I can think of for me is that we moved to a different town when I was 6. Until then I had been completely secure into school, with friends, at home. We moved 50 miles away and I hated it. I'm an only child and I felt very alone and unsure of myself and didn't have anyone to share it with. The school and children were so different from what I was used to. My mum was also really unhappy about the move for a long time which I think affected me. I think I cling to things because they make me feel safe and reassured. It sounds ridiculous written down but it's really hard to explain.

Please don't be too hard on your DH. He probably wishes he could chuck stuff away without a second thought, but the fact is he can't. And asking him to explain it will most likely just make him frustrated.

Sorry I've not been much help but my DH feels your pain, I am sure!

Hugs Milliemoodle it is a very complex thing. I am always full of sympathy for the individuals featured on programmes about hoarding. Seems such a terribly sad way to live. I can also relate somewhat because although it's never developed into actual hoarding, I do suffer with anxiety and definitely have a tendency toward hanging on to things. There's an element of never wanting to forget anything, I think, as so doing so feels like losing a tiny piece of oneself or one's loved ones. So you hang on to that item in order to preserve your memories and keep them safe. And so on and so forth. Only one aspect of course. It's like an onion, so many layers.

I'm thankfully able to regulate my behaviour in this regard, and always have been, but I certainly understand the compulsion and do sometimes have to work to resist the tendency.

Btw if you ever do feel the need to let go of some things, I really would recommend The Life-changing Magic of Tidying. I guess it won't work for everyone but my hunch is a lot of hoarders would likely find the method very good for learning to let go of the need for physical representations of memories, ideas or wishes and hopes. I know that for me, a clear and organised space is hugely important to my well being. And there is something extremely pleasing about accepting life for what it is rather than trying to insulate oneself from it...

(Waffling now)

My father is a serious hoarder. It's a totally selfish way to live, we have begged and pleaded, we have called ss but he is of sound mind. He will trip one day with all the clobber on the stairs.

So, we have to accept he chooses to live like that. It honestly feels like it is worse for us, he doesn't seem that bothered.

When he dies it will be a horrible horrible job to sort everything out. He has told us the mess is for others to clean up and he won't be around so what does it matter.

He cannot invite anyone into the house. You cannot get through the front door yet he still lives like that

WHY??

My dh too.

Our patented survival technique, The Shed: agree a 'shed' space that is his, entirely his, that you agree NEVER to grumble about, you must NEVER try to tidy and you NEVER let it annoy you. (For us the shed is dh's study but it could be a drawer, a cupboard, an actual shed or whole house.) In return dh agrees to keep his 'collection' in the shed.

Of course his stuff doesn't fit in spreads and creeps out. And when it's out of the room it's fair game for me to tidy. If I know is 'precious' I'll just gather up and dump back in his shed. If I deem it junk I will hide it in the bin relocate it when dh isn't around.

Thanks Holger. How you've written it sort of sums it up! Maybe I'm a mild to moderate hoarder.
I'm much better than I used to be. Now DS is 4 I've realised that we cannot keep absolutely everything. I've sold some of his clothes on ebay which was a huge thing for me. Part of my issue is that I cannot bear things to be wasted. So I'd rather sell something than take it to the tip. But then I don't sell it, I hang on to it and stuff sort of accumulates, then I don't want to get rid of it.
Sometimes I need to build up to letting go of something. I'll try but I won't be ready, but 6 months or a year later I might be ready.
It sounds bonkers when I'm reading this back. I don't have piles of stuff everywhere, our house is quite tidy. I have drawers with stuff in, and the garage. I'm determined not to let it get worse though, and I know I have an issue which is a start. DH tries to be patient, he knows I'd have a meltdown if he got rid of my stuff!

I kept absolutely loads of my daughters' drawings from ages 2 to about 10, I've never wanted to get rid of them so they've been carefully stored over the years. Firstly because I loved them, but also because I have a very happy memory from my own childhood when I was about nine and my grandparents brought some things out of the loft and there was a pile of my drawings that I had drawn a few years before and I found it fascinating looking back over them. I wanted my children to be able to have the same experience.

But now we are moving and I have to downsize, so I need to get rid of quite a lot of stuff. I'd already made my peace with letting go of all those drawings and have no sense of loss about it, so I'm not worried about it. But then the other day I had a sudden epiphany that reaffirmed my decision. It dawned on me that my girls have already had that experience - a year or two ago I pulled the box out of storage and we looked through all the drawings. It was lovely. I've already given them that memory, and now I can happily relinquish my need to hang on to all that stuff.

I thought I'd want to hang on to these things even more once my girls were older and their childhood really was slipping away, but actually the opposite is true - the circle of life continues, and I feel at peace with it. Or it could be down to the fact that I've been quietly and steadily kondoing over the past few weeks and maybe my relationship with 'stuff' (that's all it really is, after all) has changed...

(Sorry for hijack)

Holger, at school we have stopped sending home all the art work. We now photograph it and each child stores the photos on a USB. Could that be a solution for you?

Over the 6 months I spent decluttering my house we've made a sum total of £450 through selling stuff. Mostly on ebay and nct sales.

I've also given masses to charity shops, lots to friends, car loads to the rubbish dump and some clothes to jumble sales for fundraising events.

The house is now much tidier with much less effort. I really enjoy having less and am a much fussier shopper now. The kids find it easier to do their chores as everything has a place.

I have thought of it but it would honestly take way too much time. I have got a very busy few months coming up and it would take way too much of my focus. But also, I'm fully confident I don't feel the need to hang on to them. My girls are older now. One is at uni the other is not far behind. As I explained earlier they've had the experience i wanted them to have. It's the right time to let it go.

But thanks for the suggestion and I suggest the same when others are struggling to get rid of drawings and projects and so on.

Holger, I am exactly the same with DS's paintings. It doesn't help that my mum writes his name and the date on the ones he does at hers (once a primary school teacher, always a primary school teacher!). Sometimes she laminates them. I absolutely cannot get rid of them. I'm getting slightly better with the undated, unlaminated stuff, but I imagine I'll have boxes of paintings by the time he leaves home. My mum still has all my school projects. I'm also terrible for hanging onto birthday cards etc.

See above suggestion - good quality photos, keep it on a USB stick and backed up somewhere. If I had young children now I would definitely be doing it - one week up on display, then photographed. It's just a bit too late for me to do it

(Not meant in a bossy way of course , I just think it's a brilliant way to have the best of both worlds)

Honestly ?
Do you just want to moan about him, or do you genuinely want to know?

I think, if you genuinely want to try to get changes made, you have to stop thinking "I'm right - and it is him that has a problem" and move to "we both have different outlooks on this, how can we both compromise"

I know I'm a hoarder. I wish I were better at being ruthless. I would actually love to have someone empathetic to help me declutter, but if you came in with ultimatums about having to chuck stuff out, or with decisions that you had already made about what it worth keeping or not, then I'd shut down and get very defensive.

Personally, I hate the thought of something that could be useful being put in a skip / taken to the tip. I've got lots of stuff in my house that I would be quite happy to see going out of my house, but have no time to put it on Freecycle / take it to Women's Aid or the Charity shop, or local schools, or anywhere else that might be able to use it. So, one thing that would help me (don't know obviously if it's the same for him) is for you to say "Tell me if there's anything you think you might be ready to get rid of, and I'll Freecycle it / take it to the charity shop / try and sell it on E-Bay / Do a car boot {as appropriate}

Then - organising paperwork. Would it help if you bought a filing cabinet, and agreed that he could keep all the paperwork he felt he needed, as long as it went into the cabinet?

Or
Could you offer to build a digital record, by scanning the payslips {or whatever} and then shredding the actual paper, but still having the record ?

The receipts / tickets - get a box folder, and keep any that will fit in there. When it's full, then he can filter and 'thin out' but still has some to keep.

I could go on and on about things I'd love to have someone to do to help me, but the things that wouldn't work are ultimatums, shouting, criticism, etc.

It's funny how it's almost like a switch that flips, isn't it. I've never had a house full of clutter, really, as I'm quite strict about getting rid of stuff unless it's actually sentimental and while I do like collecting I'm also fairly good at clearing out on a regular basis (because I know my tendency so I work doubly hard to overcome it). But kondoing has made a big difference to my emotional relationship with things and also on tempering my consumerism.

(Again, sorry for hijack)

My DH is a terrible hoarder as well. I sympathise, OP. I don't know what to do about it either. I mentioned the Marie Kondo book & he got all defensive & said he was aware of the theory but didn't think it would work for him, refused to engage in further conversation, and just completely withdrew. I try tidying my own stuff (to try and create more space/a cleaner house, and to inspire him, he just thinks "goody, I can put my stuff there" and it's filled up again. And I now have even less space in the house for my things - not that I have much anyway. Apart from this issue (and my suspicion that he displays a lot of signs of ASD or similar, and won't discuss that either) our relationship is brilliant. I wonder if the two issues are linked, or if he hoards because his parents do. They are worse, btw, but perhaps only because they have lived in the same house for 20 years. Can someone link or PM me with the location of the support thread for families of hoarders.

Here's one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/good_housekeeping/1950192-The-Hoarders-Anonymous-Thread-Sorting-It-Out

But it may be more from the hoarder's perspective.

Might still be useful for general insight.

And a recent kondoing one, for inspiration:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/good_housekeeping/2302539-Kondoing-away-the-chaos-Kondo-thread-7-for-yet-more-life-changing-magic

Telephone buy the book and read it yourself. Don't nag him or mention it, just start doing your bits. Leave the book by your bed. He will pick it up eventually when he sees how amazing it is

My cousins has ASD traits (his children are statemented) and he has just decluttered his house using the book.

He's highly unlikely to change, as someone else said earlier - can you afford to live separately? Otherwise you are just going to have to accept it.

How big is your home - can you divide it into your 'clutter free zones' and his areas?

You need to sort out what you are going to do, haven't you mentioned it a few times before? He doesn't see it as a problem so has no incentive to change.

Leave the book by your bed. He will pick it up eventually when he sees how amazing it is - do you really believe that Various? Why would be change, he likes his 'clutter'.

The one-room gir his stuff works gir us.

DH hoards clothes, but only clothes. He has the entire loft (with 2 mega wardrobes and masses of space) and I never go there.

He sells some on e-bay. Then buys more.

If it starts encriaching on other living spaces I have a eord and put the pile in the loft.

It works, but you need to have the space.