Why children go to school

[HSMM]

Had a very interesting debate at my OU tutorial this week about why children go to school. The tutor wrote 'school' up on the whiteboard and then had lots of lines going off it saying things like socialisation, qualifications, etc. When everyone had finished shouting out, he went through each thing and we had to decide if it was accessible without going to school and he wiped off the ones which were. At the end, the only 2 reasons he had left for children going to school were:

1. To keep them off the streets
2. So their parents can go to work I am considering HE my DD, so found this backed me up. The other students were very shocked and still could not agree, even though the evidence was in front of them!

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"All you anti-HE people....why are you on here?"

I'm not anti-HE at all but the reason I looked at this thread (and I rarely look at the topic threads are under) is because the question was 'Why children go to school'.

Surely the people whose children actually go to school can answer that as well as (or perhaps better than) those whose children don't go to school.

I am also being a bit nosy because as I OU student myself I was wondering what the subject was. The OP hasn't explained why the OP felt the need to go to a tutorial when she has the resources to study the course at home without recourse to getting together with other student at a day school/tutorial.

Pisces,
I actually don't care where you post!

Ofcourse this is a public forum and, ofcourse, I agree that debate is good. I just don't understand why it's ok for anti-HE people to keep on slating HE, when they don't know the first thing about it. I know about schools personally, my kids tried 2 of them, but I wouldn't dream of "going on" (like some of you do) at my friends who opt to keep their kids in the system and try to make them feel like they've done something awful. (Like some of you seem to be trying to do).

I wouldn't go on the school forums and start suggesting that the parents on there were doing their children harm by making them go to school, iyswim.

I am at secondary level with mine. We are doing the IGCSE in Mathematics in november this year. My DS is 12. We intend to take the biology IGCSE next May, he will be 13. We have used some online maths tutorials, and the biology syllabus is from the book follwed up by some experiments, further research on the internet, even interactive games no less. Only took a few goes to learn all the main bones when done as a game!

We are doing International GCSE's as there is no coursework. Some say it is more demanding than the coursework type as it is based entirely on the exam.

My reason for home educating is due to bullying at school. I was totally unaware that we were allowed to do it legally, but had refused to let my DS return for his own safety and was advised it was perfectly legal. My DS2 will be home educated for the secondary level through his own choice and may well come out of school before that. My DD would hate to be home ed!

I am guided by how they feel, I would not force them out of school if they are happy there, but had i known about HE before they started school, I may well have never sent them in the first place, but don't believe in pulling them out unless they wanted to now.

greatwhiteshark - 'defending our choice to HE from uninformed attacks'. I know.

My comments to say let's think wider than either/or applied to both sides of the debate.

I am currently schooling. I can still imagine the reasons/circumstances when I might make a different choice.

I had a year of my high schooling on a tropical island doing papers sent by my home country and spending a lot of time learning to sail, learning the flute, doing drama, teaching younger kids ballet/swimming/recorder. Another high school year I was an exchange student to a foreign country where I understood almost nothing in most classes.

I still got to university, got two decent degrees, despite not following the approved path.

My brother spent a primary school year half at home, half at school because that was what made sense. His school teacher was our next door neighbour so it was lucky she was sympathetic!

So I do get it! And I think those of us who choose to school could learn a lot from H Edders, in both how we approach things when we do have our kids at home and also what we demand from schools. (e.g. a more play-based classroom set-up).

I was thrilled to see in DS's reception class, for example, that a huge proportion of their time was free choice between lego, book corner, running round outside, drawing, dress-ups, etc. Without some of the knowledge around how children learn through play, I may not have known to value that.

I think you are countering arguments that simpley aren't on this thread kaytee.

Mumsnet would grind to a halt if people were not allowed to slate things they knew about.

I dont see slating, I see debate.

The only evidence of slating comes from the OP who suggests that I send my dd to school so I can go to work ( not true she has a SAHP) or to keep her off the streets as if she were some kind of hooligan

Twinset - "I think your OP was all about running down the choice of the majority of parents to school educate/ "

I disagree - it was about dispelling myths about why children need to go to school. Maybe there did need to be a 3) parents would be crap at HEing, but if they were going to be crap at HEing, they're probably crap at parenting too and school is therefore very important and very necessary

Bloss - Am off out now, so won't be able to answer any response to what I'm about to answer you until later on, but what do you still feel you don't understand about HEing for secondary aged children? I'll see if I can help you better if you can clarify what you're worried about

What a lot of insulting nonsense, I suspect lots of very good parents would not be good at HE.

I H.E our youngest son and although the older 2 have been H.E at some point they are now (thriving) in secondary school.

Youngest ds is by far the quickest learner he is interested and capable and has even had ds1 (15) explain certain aspects of science to him.

Yes school for most children is a fantastic learning environment- for some it just doesnt fit- for us we withdrew our dc when a teacher was found 'guilty' of bullying our son ,that was the day we lost our faith in school being the 'great education provider' and decided to go it alone - very succesfully I might add.

The point is that home educated children are educated to an extent by society - the people ds3 meets in a day arent crb checked dont all profess to loving children and arent in most aspects child orientated-therefore ds3 has socially defined the varying needs and abilities of how to approach different people and learn from it.

That to me is an extremely important development in socialisation.

The vast growing numbers of children that are being H.E only support the growing concensus that school isnt the only way of eceiving a good well balanced education.

As it happens this Easter ive been approached by at least 4 mothers all asking me to tutor their child through the holidays as they are 'struggling' with school obviously I declined but they see the standars of education my ds3 receives and want it for theirs too.

personally I enjoyed going to school and would not have been happy learning at home. But it might have been better for one of my children to have been home educated, certainly at primary level.

Looking at the educational system as an adult I see some teachers who are NOT good at teaching, a few who are inspirational (even if they haven't inspired my children) and a lot in the middle.

But increasingly I have doubts about the whole education system. Primary schools send out a significant number of children who can't manage the basics. Much of what children "learn" at secondary school will be forgotten once they leave because it is of no relevance to them. Children can be "socialised" (or brainwashed) into some pretty unpleasant behaviour. Those who do best are the physically advanced, hence the advantage of being one of the oldest in the year. It isn't a system that promotes individual development.

"parents would be crap at HEing, but if they were going to be crap at HEing, they're probably crap at parenting too "

Really ? Well I guess that makes me a crap parent then. As I am 99% sure I couldn't HE.

bloss you say that education is " about opening your mind, disciplining your thoughts, and appreciating beauty." Do you really think that's what children generally get at secondary school?

They get peer pressure to be the same as all the teenagers, they often get teacher pressure to hold the same opinions as the teacher or those the teacher thinks the examiner has.

'I just don't understand why it's ok for anti-HE people to keep on slating HE, when they don't know the first thing about it.'

I am not actually slating HE, some people do a wonderful job. I would do it myself if my DC was unhappy at school (but I would have to do a lot of lateral thinking if it was secondary stage because I could only manage the arts subjects).
I always come on to defend schools who get a terrible bashing.You would never guess that most teachers go into the profession because they love DCs, love their company and are passionately interested in how they learn. (they are shown as joyless individuals, set on conformity whose chief job is to cause misery!)

I also see it as debate-very interesting debate at that. (at least at school you get more than one side-you don't get people who are intent on only showing you one side).

Another point is that at school if you have a bad teacher it is only for a year or one subject-if you have parent who is a poor educator you are stuck with them.

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i think there is a social comminality about school - the stereotypes that we all encounter. the bullies, the bullied, the teacher with the combover, the strict teacher, the teacher who couldn't control the class. Even school dinners, the shape of the tie ( for fashionable purposes) length of skirt, top button unfastned, trainers or shoes, only a 'named' carrier bag, a 'named' backpack, the girl who messed with the bunson burner, the lad who puked when dissecting a frog, the teacher we all fancied ( mr crichley) the lad who set the cooker on fire, the girl whose mum died, the kid who got took by social services - generally across the board, in British society, we have a comminality through this experience. One that you can share with pretty much anyone.

I really don't understand someone who HE their child throughout their whole education.

perhaps part of their education - i could understand that.

I know we are divided in opinion on this and there isn't a middle ground.

But school isn't all full of bad experiences, and i think that whilst education is put forth as the reason to HE, i would think that its more of the parents phychological perspective on school - i am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but i would bet my right bumcheek, that the HEers as a whole would predominantly form adults who didn't fit in socially at school - and/or PFB syndrome.

I am sure that the children will get a first rate education at home - but for me education isn't the issue. I wouldn't want to have socially maladjusted kids - and i think taking them to HE club, brownies, cubs and judo - just doesn't cut it in the real world - becuase of he social comminality - above.

I think maybe you could get away with HE through infant school - but by junior school - they are missing so much of the life at school that has nothing to do with education.

tatt
bloss you say that education is " about opening your mind, disciplining your thoughts, and appreciating beauty." Do you really think that's what children generally get at secondary school?

It is what I see happening in my lessons all day everyday. I am sure it happens in my colleagues rooms everyday.

"They get peer pressure to be the same as all the teenagers, they often get teacher pressure to hold the same opinions as the teacher or those the teacher thinks the examiner has. "
I teach an opinion subject and never pressure kids to think the same as me, I encourage them to explore lots of different opinions.

I would hope HE would do the same, of course a bad school/teacher wont manage it but neither will a bad HE.

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Here's a reason why I wouldn't home ed.. I was HE'd until I was 11 and generally taught with my DB and two children of a similar age from another family. My mum did arts/ languages and humanities and the other mum did science and maths. Without wishing to brag, DB and I were much brighter than the other children and their mum got very upset about it - to the point where DB and I were actively not being allowed to learn science especially and were constantly told we were rubbish at it and couldn't be expected to understand.

I know this experience is unusual and have nothing but admiration for people who are able to HE properly but I wouldn't do it myself. I don't think that really makes me a bad parent does it?

I think that friendship is an important issue. HEing gives the parent too much control IMO.
One of my best friends today is one that I met on the first day of secondary school. I was her bridesmaid, her daughter was my bridesmaid, we are godparents to each others DCs and although we live over 400 miles apart we email and phone regularly.
I always liked her but my mother thought she was a 'bossy little madam'. Since her mother was much older than my mother and they had little in common I think our chances of developing a friendship would have been nil if it wasn't for school,left to my mother it would have been once a week, if we happened to do to the same activity-if that.

OK I know nothing about HE at all and have 2 DC. My question is what exams and qualifications do your DC's have to take or do if they are HE? I'm interested because I don't know anyone who HE's and I would like to know more. I have other questions but can't remember what they all are.

TIA

I agree with greatwhiteshark that you might not need a teacher to learn but. I know that myself (can't talk about others) would not be able to "teach" my children , even though I had a wide range of different experiences, I love reading I have a reasonable level of general knowledge and try to get my dcs to be interested in a lot of things . The reason being I would be extreamly focused and do a fantastic job for about two weeks and then it all would start to crumble when they are not motivated and I start feeling I coud do with a cup of tea. + as everyone might have noticed, my spelling/grammar can be a bit "exotic" at times.

I think you need a much stronger character than I have to HE your own children and I do truely admire anyone who can!

The friendship issue is also something that does make me think a bit, although I am pretty sure than HE children do go out and play with others when they do not have lessons as well.

why do children go to school?

One would hope that it is because it is the best course of action socially, developmentally, educationally, pragmatically, financially, and family-relationships-ily for their particular families. If school isn't going to be the best course of action on enough of those fronts for a particular child, so that the pros of it no longer outweigh the cons FOR THAT CHILD, then they should not be going to school.

I'm a fully paid up lentil weaving HEer, and I see it as a wonderful wonderful thing for actually every family I've come across so far who does it, but I recognise that the cultural norm is school and that it is hugely valuable for a variety of reasons for many of families who choose to use schools.

But I would have to say that the water in the HE pool is lovely, for anyone considering dipping a toe in 'Tis for certain sure not a suboptimal choice on any of the measures one might wish to apply.