Why children go to school

[HSMM]

Had a very interesting debate at my OU tutorial this week about why children go to school. The tutor wrote 'school' up on the whiteboard and then had lots of lines going off it saying things like socialisation, qualifications, etc. When everyone had finished shouting out, he went through each thing and we had to decide if it was accessible without going to school and he wiped off the ones which were. At the end, the only 2 reasons he had left for children going to school were:

1. To keep them off the streets
2. So their parents can go to work I am considering HE my DD, so found this backed me up. The other students were very shocked and still could not agree, even though the evidence was in front of them!

that's fine for motivated parents who have the ability to access the information and resources to home educate their children.
Without such parents most of the items wouldn't have been wiped off - would they?
In my case - I wouldn't have te motivation to home educate them, despite having the intelligence and wherewithall to source the information and resources.

Free childcare?

ChasingSquirrels - I think the point was that it is possible, not that everyone would want, or be able to do it.

Runnerbean

Chasing squirrels & runnerbean - that's reason 2 - so parents can go to work...I guess they ought to have added 'or just have fun sans children'

thats very interesting its amazing that if/when you are put in the position motivation comes along as well the internet is a wealth of knowledge, and has been a great resource to us all.

1 - i can only speak about children and families we know and they are younger children, but they are never 'on the street'.

2 - there are many homeschooling families who have both parents working, shift work, flex time, part time, self employed etc.

i think what i am trying to say is there will always be an obstacle in your way for any decision you make, but its how you over come it that matters.

V good point, mumtoo3. If you really feel that your children would be better off not in school, then you will find a way to home educate them.

Probably because they love it-they want to learn-they want a teacher to teach them and they want other children to discuss ideas with and different ways of looking at things.For people to suggest new things that they would never have thought of themselves.
I couldn't wait to go when I was 5yrs and adored it. I was eager to learn and wanted to know all sorts of things-especially to have a desk and read and write.
I would have hated to have stayed at home with my mother and siblings, all the time-much as I loved them. The teacher was able to relate to my age group-she didn't have to cater for 2 younger children at the same time. Most importantly I was free to make my own friends-not just the people that my mother thought suitable. In one word independence-I was a very independent child.
I was also extremely shy so it took me out of myself and I was able to blossom-in a way that I wouldn't if sheltered at home.
More than anything the intellectual stimulus and exposure to all sorts of opinions.

If I had been at the tutorial I would have had a few more things on the board and I would have had some more things left at the end!

You're lucky Pisces - I had the opposite experience at school. I was very shy but was bullied, I loved learning but was told I was rubbish at maths, chemistry, physics (all the things I was interested in) and was stuck doing English/history/geography because I could 'do' it. As for friends, hmmm popularity contest more like. I was hopelessly unpopular and it took me years to realise that, actually, I can be liked for me rather than what I'm wearing or who I'm hanging around with.

tbh I think chasing squirels point is very valid and much more important that keeping them off the streets (which surely home ed would do as well) or so the parents could go to work.
I have the intelligence to home ed and the motivation I could probably find, but that doesn't mean I have the ability to teach them.

Perhaps I was lucky Callisto, I was shy, unsporty and bookish but I always had friends. I have never been one for a large crowd, I prefer a few close friends.
My DSs have all preferred school, their cousins are HEed so they know it is is possible, but they have recoiled in horror at any suggestion.

I don't understand why a good teacher is thought to be so unimportant when they are worth their weight in gold! People have different learning styles-I don't want someone to felicitate my learning-I want someone to teach me. I also want other people there who are learning the same thing at the same time. It makes sense to me that if you have a lot of people who want to learn about chemistry you get them together, with a lab, all the equipment and a teacher rather than try and do it at home, without the proper equipment and without an expert in the field.

"they want to learn"

You don't need to go to school to do that!

"they want a teacher to teach them"

Mine don't.

"they want other children to discuss ideas with and different ways of looking at things"

I still don't understand why you need to go to school to get that...my children are always with other children and adults as are most of the home educated children I know.

"For people to suggest new things that they would never have thought of themselves"

Piscesmoon, I know you are anti-HE, but your arguments just don't stack up! Please come up with something more original! My children are constantly telling me things that I never knew so they certainly haven't been taught them by me! Maybe they go to school secretly...

"I couldn't wait to go when I was 5yrs and adored it."

Good for you

"I was eager to learn and wanted to know all sorts of things-especially to have a desk and read and write."

COME ON!!!! FFS - THESE ARE NOT THINGS YOU NEED TO BE IN SCHOOL TO DO/HAVE!

"I would have hated to have stayed at home with my mother and siblings, all the time-much as I loved them."

Ok, that's for you. If my children felt the same then they could go to school - happily they don't feel that way.

"The teacher was able to relate to my age group-she didn't have to cater for 2 younger children at the same time."

No, she had to cater for 20+ other children of different abilities, with different interests etc.

"Most importantly I was free to make my own friends-not just the people that my mother thought suitable."

You have such a poor understanding of home educating families. Yes, some HEing families do this, but most don't. I don't vet the children to go to the home education groups we attend, the beaver group DD1 goes to, the children of my friends, the children at the playground or the beach, the children who play out in our road after school and in the holidays.

"In one word independence-I was a very independent child."

So are mine!

"I was also extremely shy so it took me out of myself and I was able to blossom-in a way that I wouldn't if sheltered at home."

Mine also - in fact one of my daughters who was constantly described by others (to my annoyance) as clingy, shy etc., is now super confident - will go and ask shop assistants for help, ask questions in museums etc., relates to other children and adults extremely well, making friends with any other children who are playing near he rin the playground or on the beach - she's 5 btw. Home educated children are NOT sheltered at home.

"More than anything the intellectual stimulus and exposure to all sorts of opinions. "

I'll say it again - this does not have to happen in school and happens extremely easily for home educated children.

"that doesn't mean I have the ability to teach them."

If you read all the research etc. about how children learn informally, you'll realise you don't need an ability to teach in order to home educate, just an ability to enjoy being with your children, answering questions, helping them find out things they want to know about.

I agree with Piscesmoon. I was very similar and I really relate to the independence point as well.

When I think of how my DSs behave when I am there and when I am not there is a world of difference. DS2 is very shy and won't let go of my hand when I am around. When he is at school he is a very popular and happy child the teachers tell me and actually, I can see for myself as I can see the playground from our house and I see how other children relate to him when we get out of school. It does him good to be allowed to make friends and work things out for himself.

DS1 simply won't bother with other children if I am there, partly due to his SN. He has a handful of friends and I doubt he would have those if I was with him all the time as he wouldn't feel the need.

I think the personality of the parent is something that you can't change. DS1 needs OT and gets it at school. If I try to do it with him at home we just fall out. I am too emotionally tied up with him not to get frustrated when he simply doesn't want to do it. He isn't worried about saying no to me. At school he just has to get on with it. The emotional distance is important. No doubt we would do it together if we had to but school takes away the pain.

How do you teach something you have no knowledge about greatwhiteshark?
For instance I struggled at school with physics, I got a good mark at GCSE but that's because I just memoriesed everything, I didn't understand it. I would not feel comfortable teaching physics to children.

I would add so their parents aren't obliged to educate their children. Which you might want to put under the so they can go to work' heading, but that would be reductionism of a quite misleading kind. What course were you doing? I do hope there was some discussion around the complex and difficult to define categories that you used.

Why do you go to tutorials anyway?

You don't, Libra, you get someone else to, or you get a book from the library, or you learn alongside eachother, or you access an online course, or you go to the local college or, or or....you need to open your mind and think creatively!

i think there are good points for both tbh, although never considered HE. I feel i would eb doing DD1 a dis service, especially when it came to secondary education. Im a bright woman, and can help with most things, but have little knowledge or passion about things that dont intrest me, so how could i teach her about them?

You don't, Lisa, you get someone else to, or you get a book from the library, or you learn alongside eachother, or you access an online course, or you go to the local college or, or or....you need to open your mind and think creatively!

learn alongside them? book from the library? really? access an online course?
You think that is good enough for your childs education?

I do think you need an "ability" to teach, children do need guidance in what they need to learn. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold with their ability to inspire and impart knowledge that the children will remember, I think it is arrogance to think you can do that with HE (unless you do have this ability to teach which you might but I'm sure doesn't happen in all cases) as you as a normal human being will just not have the breadth of knowledge for all subjects.

I am not going to discuss it further greatwhiteshark.
All I can tell you is that I loved school when I was a child. I didn't go to nursery or mix much with other DCs, I went full time at 5 yrs from full time at home (a very happy home).
You didn't like school and you would have preferred to be educated at home.

We are all different-it is easy to say what suits us. You will have to wait until yours are adults to find out what they really thought, when they have had the whole experience. Mine are adult or teens and were/are happy with school.

If my mother had been anti school and had all sorts of theories about them being damaging to children and kept me at home it would have damaged our relationship to this day. I would blame her.

I never win in any of these HE/school arguments.
HE suits lots of children. It doesn't suit others and schools are not all evil.
Learning at school suited me -I LOVED IT.
I don't expect everyone to be the same but it would be nice to have it acknowledged that lots of DCs love school and they are not deficient in some way!

You are wrong pisces moon, I did like school actually! I'm not asking you to agree with home education, I'm asking you to please come up with some original arguments that actually make sense because the only one of yours that does at the moment is 'because I loved it, and my children love it', which is fine, and admirable. Why go on and on about other non-reasons?

If I'd been there then it would have said

"because they enjoy it"

Obviously if they don't then there is HE.

greatwhiteshark how old are your children? have they ever been to school? What made you decide to keep them home? genuinely interested. I know I will never HE my children and personally I disagree with HE but interested in why people do.

So many Home Educators are over zealous in their conversion and do spout anti school crap.