Why children go to school

[HSMM]

Had a very interesting debate at my OU tutorial this week about why children go to school. The tutor wrote 'school' up on the whiteboard and then had lots of lines going off it saying things like socialisation, qualifications, etc. When everyone had finished shouting out, he went through each thing and we had to decide if it was accessible without going to school and he wiped off the ones which were. At the end, the only 2 reasons he had left for children going to school were:

1. To keep them off the streets
2. So their parents can go to work I am considering HE my DD, so found this backed me up. The other students were very shocked and still could not agree, even though the evidence was in front of them!

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really riven!

In Scotland, I very muich doubt there are any secondary teachers without a degree in their subject

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bloss, that doesn;t happen in Scotland. I am aware that in England people often seem to teach more than one subject and that they are often not degree-qualified in teh second, but that doesn't happen here.

I'll double check with my secondary friend next time I speak to her.

(and as an aside, can I ask why you think the PGCE is useless?)

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yes, there has been a big recruitme nt drive for maths and english teachers but I think 'covering' means onlt teachers who cover in teh absence of the regular teacher. The permanent staff will be qualified

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The question was why do children go to school? It was posted in the HE forum as opposed to the general school forum because, i'm assuming, it was expected that HE'ers would have unique and interesting - if also controversial - viewpoints on the question. I appreciate that some of these somewhat unconventional viewpoints would be received with sceptism.

However, what has happened is that the HE'ers have stated their opinions and then attempted to substantiate them with their own personal experiences and those of others who are actually DOING it, and yet have in effect been repeatedly told - not asked - that what they are experiencing is impossible. Why bother to ask if you know you are not going to accept the answer no matter how many times it is put to you?

This is sad because in my opinion HE is one of the most exciting revolutions within the area of education to be taking place today. HE as it is taking place in the UK is at the cutting edge of educational theory. I'll tell you why.

Here is a group of people who are living Piaget and Vygotsky, J. Bruner, John holt and others. They are putting previously perceived notions and theory of education to the test, they have up until now been free to approach the word education in any manner they choose with or without curriculum etc and the results - contrary to beliefs of others - here have been proved through observation of Ed. Psychologists to be successful both in the typical western sense of GCSE Alevel College, Uni B.A. P.H.D etc and in terms of mental and social development.

Now as someone who was going to be a teacher and loves educational theory I find this exciting. There are some HEers here who are extreme Automous in their approach. Do I think I could go that far? No. But I find it exciting none the less.

I'm not against schools, and teachers do a valuable job. But there is a lot that can be learnt from observing the exciting work of HE'ers. They should be respected for what they are trying to do and for bucking the trend. It does require an open mind.

Great post, 2kidzandi

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I would actually love to observe the exciting work of HEers, but I doubt if any of them allow it. I have been to observe at a couple of state schools near me that teach in a radically different way and it was very interesting-I was a convert in one case.
Before anyone gets cross at the suggestion, I can see why they don't-you wouldn't want to open your home and DCs to adults who may be highly sceptical-I certainly wouldn't. However it does mean that we can't see it in operation and have to take the word of the person doing it-you can't judge for yourself.

Piscesmoon, some home-educators have let people into their homes to observe.
You might find Educating Children at Home by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison interesting.

"Product Description
In his "Educating Children at Home", Alan Thomas found that many home educating families chose or gravitated towards an informal style of education, radically different from that found in schools. Such learning, also described as unschooling, natural or autonomous, takes place without most of the features considered essential for learning in school. At home there is no curriculum or sequential teaching, nor are there any lessons, textbooks, requirements for written work, practice exercises, marking or testing. But how can children who learn in this way actually achieve an education on a par with what schools offer? In this new research, Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison seek to explain the efficacy of this alternative pedagogy through the experiences of families who have chosen to educate their children informally.Based on interviews and extended examples of learning at home the authors explore: the scope for informal learning within children's everyday lives; the informal acquisition of literacy and numeracy; the role of parents and others in informal learning; and, how children proactively develop their own learning agendas. Their investigation provides not only an insight into the powerful and effective nature of informal learning but also presents some fundamental challenges to many of the assumptions underpinning educational theory. This book will be of interest to education practitioners, researchers and all parents, whether their children are in or out of school, offering as it does fascinating insights into the nature of children's learning."

Go Juule! Go Riven!

(I'm going to butt out because it has been pointed out I am not talking about HE here, but I stand by my assertion that in Scotland maths teachers in permanent posts are degree qualified. I know all about teacher shortages etc etc and the big problem of finding cover for staff shortages and I know they often do not have a relevant degree. I've read that report. I won't go on any more here though)

On this question of whether someone learns best when they are led by someone who themselves has expertise...

this does not tally with my experience as an autonomously HEing parent. One example: computer games. Parental ineptitude doesn't seem to hold children back there.

Another example: learning to climb well.

There are so many examples of things children learn where they are not being guided by people with degrees in the area.

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