How to connect with 'wholesome' families

[RosemarySutcliffe]

Please no tiresome comments of offended outrage. I was hoping for ideas on how to meet home educated families in the hope that my children (ages 13,11, 7 & 4) could make friends with children more like themselves. Children who are familiar with classic literature (nesbit, ransome, tolkien, lewis etc), who are imaginative, interested in culture (shakespeare, poetry, enthusiastic, outdoorsy, well-mannered and have a sense of good sportsmanship, traditional childhood fun, how to be a friend and so on.
It feels like a needle in a haystack. We don't do gaming, my children don't have ipads or phones, they have only been exposed to edifying, wholesome films. They don't have behaviour problems or mental health problems. They are just decent, normal, imperfect, regular children. They don't know who Taylor Swift is, they've never played minecraft. How to meet like-minded people? It feels as if home educated children these days are often far more homogeneous than children who attend school. I don't mean any judgement of offence, it just can feel a little lonely as a family when you are raising them outside of the prevailing culture. We would love to have friends to invite for afternoon tea and poetry, dinner parties, bonfires, book clubs, put on plays with, swallows and amazon style adventures.. you get the idea.

In many respects I agree with your values and outlook. Our children grew up rurally too. Spending most of their time riding horses, building dens, enjoying the wildlife, playing tennis and reading. We have given them an organic life full of opportunity. Choosing a country school so that they are surrounded by others that also love the outdoors. A life of making dens and playing outside. It’s perfectly possible to blend the two with conventional schooling where we live.

I do not control what they read, and insist on classical literature, although they have obviously read these books too over the years - as I felt they should choose, enjoy the freedom and develop a love of reading in the same way I have. A wide variety of fiction and non fiction.

I can really understand why you would want to keep your dc away from the children that are living life almost like zombies, and have been allowed to fall out of the system, and spend huge parts of their lives in a virtual world. They are being ‘home educated’ for different reasons to you.

I think you could have achieved your goal in a very lovely village school, and possibly gained many friends, a community and family connections that way. To develop roots and security for your children.

It seems that you are very much controlling their life experience that may hinder them in later years op. They do need to learn how to navigate the real world, digitally, socially and in all ways.

What you have offered your children, the chance of a classically innocent British childhood is wonderful.
Popular culture is the way others connect in work places or in passing. I would ensure that have computer skills, that they enjoy exploring the internet (which has many advantages) and consider how they will manage university and life beyond. It’s your role as a parent to prepare them
for independence and early adulthood. A well rounded, confident and capable young person/people.

In answer to your question re finding families that share your values, your nearest church is likely to be your best chance. Step up your attendance, and get to know the young families there.

It does all seem lovely, my concern would be the level of independence and autonomy your young teen has now - but more importantly over the next few years. And how equipped they'll be to deal with modern live without you in such tight control of them.
My teen is very well adjusted and happy child with a broad range of interests (although he did decide against joining the school debating club). And yes some of his peers have different interests and different issues - but part of being a well rounded person is navigating that.

You want your kids to connect with wholesome families OP, and yet you have the luxury of jumping online to connect to people via an online forum. Odd in some ways because you don’t want to allow your children to connect with others online.

It is not about finding wholesome family values or travelling back in time to the 1800s, you are scared and worried of the modern world and modern interests which is a common fear among many parents. The good news is that many have raised perfectly happy and healthy individuals that enjoy the pursuits you seem to find abhorrent.

I don’t think these families will be interested in you 🤣🫣

How can they prepare for adult life if they have no technology and how do you expect them to maintain friendships as teenagers without a phone? I can’t imagine how they’d prepare their cv and apply for a job etc. I think your ideology is seriously stunting your teenagers lives. Choosing to live rurally with no phones and tech makes making friends very tricky. Writing an invitation to afternoon tea with a quill and posting it just isn’t really going to forge friendships in the real world. Many years ago when I had some involvement with HE there was a great mix of people but the outdoorsy ones may have also played too many computer games and the more religious screen free ones weren’t very outdoorsy. Obviously generalising but as with all friendships you see different friends for different things.

What happens when your children reach the age when you can no longer control them and come into contact with those you deem unwholesome

Steady on.

Sometimes children take their social cues from their parents. Do you have a good friend circle? Are you sociable and kid to other parents you encounter? If you are socially isolated then there is a good chance these habits have rubbed off on you children.

If you come across as judgmental on the type of friend they have then they may avoid making any friendships 'right' or 'wrong' for fear of upsetting their parents.

Look in before you look out. What can you do to model good social relationships? For example taking an interest in things that you might not have otherwise thought suitable - someone mentioned the lyrics of songs often run deeper that the glitter and dazzle would have you believe.

In fact one of her most poetic songs is about childhood friendships

"And I′ve been meaning to tell you
I think your house is haunted
Your dad is always mad and that must be why
And I think you should come live with me
And we can be pirates
Then you won't have to cry
Or hide in the closet..."

Deep and kind and thought provoking.

I think some quiet reflection would really do your kids a service.

Good luck

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

haha! Love that film! And so apt for OP

@RosemarySutcliffe

i really think you need to think about yourself saying bloody hell. That’s very unwholesome and bad example to the kids . Could you not say something like “oh dear!” when that happens?

Exactly. They need to be familiar with, at least, the idea of the dangers that are out there if they are to avoid them later. You can't pretend porn, violence and drugs etc do not exist. If they go to University they will be like lambs to the slaughter.

Have you considered mainstream school op? My DD (13) reads classical literature, plays piano, teaches herself languages, is part of a craft group, loves singing etc. She goes walking with friends, we have bonfires, has tea parties, rides horses ( when we can afford it), walks dogs, rides bikes etc has a book club going with her friends. She also loves Taylor Swift, clothes and make up. With regards to the dangers of vaping and tick tock you just need to establish your family rules and have the conversations..my DD knows what they both are, is well aware of the dangers of both. With vaping she has no interest and thinks it's disgusting. With tick tock she does want it but accepts she's not getting it. Social media is one of our family red lines. I feel safer with her knowing about it though. School expands her horizons offering drama, music lessons, science club, history club, team sports, swimming etc etc etc.

I’ve hesitated to share this anecdote but it might be pertinent.

There are some truly screen-free families in the home ed circles I frequent. Many of them are uber Catholic which provides a huge social network of the sort the OP is looking for. They also have large families so there’s plenty of inbuilt company for the children.

I knew of one family where the mother was extremely controlling. The children weren’t allowed to have screens of any kind. They had no access, even supervised, to the internet. They didn’t watch any tv or films and their social contacts were limited to groups that the mother herself had set up (and which weren’t allowed to extend into free time after the formal group/lesson time). At the age of about 14 they started to have occasional video nights with the films being chosen by the mother.

The eldest child eventually went to university. She has posted on social media that she found it difficult to interact with her peers because she didn’t share any cultural references with them and had to give herself a crash course in popular culture. She has now in her mid 20s stopped all contact with her mother. It’s devastatingly sad. Her mother was very extreme but very well meaning and very loving.

As a PS I just wanted to say that my children were also fairly sheltered but they did belong to clubs, go away to camps and so on and they did get phones (albeit from between 13 and 15 rather than earlier). Then they went to school either in year 10 or year 12 which worked out well.

@RosemarySutcliffe

Why did you move form Wales to Scotland? Your are both working form home, what was the reason for this change of locations, which will have impacted your dc's social life and sense of belonging? You speak of wholesome yet uprooting your dc is not wholesome.

My dc are at state primary and secondary. We live in an area with good state schools and my dc have the kind of lifestyles you are aspiring to. Their schools are huge on building cultural capital and each of my dc play 2 instruments. Believe it or not, they also play for their school's sports teams and love their scout/guide groups. At school they take part in poetry and experiential history workshops, art competitions, drama productions and exciting adventure filled end of year trips. They have leaderships opportunities and school clubs to cater for a wide range of tastes from Karate, Mandarin, Yoga and orchestra to tennis, drama or model UN, and more. In many ways going to school and having a steady home is more wholesome than HE which is a bit out there.

We live in a suburban semi with a very large garden, a huge tree house at the back that is secluded and have taken our dc camping since they were babies. Sometimes they camp by themselves in the garden with friends. We have camped at amazing campsite all over the UK and the dc have made friends at all of them running around until it gets dark, there are shared camp fires, wood fired pizza ovens, zip lines, archery and survival classes and at a place in Norfolk, there was a barn and the campsite kids produced a play.

We have pets and dc love their companionship and caring for them. We are keeping a close eye and are restrictive in phone use but they have had smart phone when they started year 7 so they can develop independence and manage their social life. No phones after 8, no TV or media after 8.30. Phones stay downstairs most of the time. All apps have time limits and we don't allow YouTube or TikTok, we spot check messages and they know this. We allow what's App form year 7 and Snap form year 9 as these.

2 of mine are ferocious readers, finished HP at end of year 2 into all the classics form a young age etc etc. The third is more into book about moral dilemmas and social responsibility but finds classics boring. We spend several weeks each summer in my parents house which is very rural and near the sea, so lots of crab fishing, swimming in the sea and dog walks. The've all spend time away from family for sleepovers, grandparent visits or school and holiday residential since they were little.

We focus on building resilience and encouraging independence including from us. They help with things at home, we don't call this chores as they're part of normal every day life. I refuse to cook and tidy up the dinner table so if I cook they and or dh will clean kitchen and dining room after and if they cook I do this. I want them to be nice people to live with at uni and have a good communal attitudes but also be their won person.

This stood out to me
We enjoy reading biographies and I do like to select inspiring lives to read about.

You should NOT be selecting what your dc read. The library in my dc primary school, was amazing and so many books old and new were promoted while at primary my dc got such a wide range of books to borrow and enjoy. Now they get recommendations from friends and they're free to order books or get them from the library whenever they wish. Children and YP need to have independence and space to be without mummy breathing down their neck.

I'm afraid you come across as somewhat controlling and this curated lifestyle is less wholesome than you might think.

I admire what you are wanting to achieve, however your kids are wanting to experience a life based on fiction books. People write books, plays, scripts using their imagination. It may be grounded in some reality but what's made it famous is the fiction.
Bob Dylan, elvis are likely to have not led the life youd want your kids to live.

@RosemarySutcliffe

Elvis was a paedophile Op. bizarre that you would look down on Taylor Swift and not him.

Yes, there’s a tendency to sanitise the past that really isn’t healthy.

And both Elvis and Bob Dylan had major drug issues - super wholesome.

I’m wondering about the curriculum spread there’s been no mention of maths all the sciences technology surely a rounded education would give equal access to a full curriculum.

@RosemarySutcliffe I put careful thought and time into responding earlier, as someone who has highly relevant experience. My children are 15 years than yours, also home educated from the start, and also with no screens at the start (though not as time went on), a focus on classical literature etc, and trying to achieve similar things. You haven't responded and I wonder if you actually saw the post. I don't mind if you saw it and didn't respond. However, as someone who was immersed in home education for many years, I have seen how things have played out for many of the formerly home educated teenagers. I think you should try to seek out their opinions - and actively seek them, analogous to doing a comprehensive literature review rather than just reading the best-promoted stories. My children and I loved home education for the primary years, but in the teenage years the potential downsides are much greater. In your shoes I'd move somewhere with good schools and the sort of society that you want to live in. A university town would give you many more options.

@Cornucopia55 as a home educator I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I’ve also written a longish post that the OP hasn’t replied to.

I was just discussing home education with my (adult) DC yesterday and they all said that they would like to home educate their own children. So I don’t think it’s the case that home ed never works for teenagers. Mine feel pretty happy with their experience overall — and we’re close as a family.

That's really good to hear @HilaireBell. Well done - sounds like you have a good relationship with them. Mine are all very keen on home education for primary, but not for secondary. One of them has suggested I might like to home educate his future children!! Not full time thanks 😅Reminds me of a session at a home ed festival where parents could put questions to a panel of formerly EHE young people (older teens / 20 somethings). They were asked if they'd home ed their own children. Most were positive about EHE but said they felt it was too much work. Except one chap, who said "I wouldn't, but I hope my wife would"!!

but what about what he says is bad?

@Cornucopia55 @HilaireBell I am sorry for my untimely response, you can't know how much I value your posts and the advice you have given, as well as many of the other posts. I have been taking notes. I have spent a lot of time this week mulling over this thread and absolutely did intend to come back and reply further, it is rude of me that I hadn't done so until now.
My husband and I have determined on a number of changes we want to begin gently implementing for this new academic year and I have a wealth of great ideas of things to add into our life to supplement the elder children's secondary education. Plus a fair number of other things that we will be giving serious consideration to. I feel fortunate to have heard back from those of you who ahead of me with teens and adult children. This feels like the right time to tweak our lifestyle in a number of ways, for this new stage with older children. Quite a lot of points had been raised that we had not considered or had perhaps not considered enough, so that has been inordinately useful. I'm very glad I began this thread.