DP Home Educates our children. I am having some issues with it.

[Carneades]

We sort of fell into Home Educating our DC. The schools locally are very bad and DC1 was (is) socially very immature. DP was very attracted to HEing for all kinds of political and personal reasons - I was a bit unsure but at the time DC1 seemed so small I sort of thought we could just change our minds in a year or two and there would be no real impact.

Fast-forward a couple of years, the children are now 6 and 5. There are two issues:

The first is that while DP and the DCs seem very happy and they do lots of lovely fun things, I am increasingly concerned that there is no real progression in terms of learning vital skills - DC1 can't read, write or count beyond ten and refuses any attempts to teach him. DP thinks he will learn in his own time. But quite honestly, while I believe her when she tells me stories about HE children she knows who couldn't read til they were nine and then learned in a week and devoured War and Peace, I don't want that for my kid. He's six and half; I think he should be able to do simple addition or write his name or recognise simple words. I don't want to undermine DP in any way but I am unhappy with this situation - I would feel much easier supporting our HE of our children if they could read and write and do maths etc. When I've broached this with DP she is quite defensive and implies it is a binary choice between school and her current approach. I'm not sure it is but I also don't want to tell her how to do her job.

The second issue is that I am paid fairly well, but as I am the sole earner, our household income is a bit tight. I am starting to really resent this. If the children were in school and DP was working we would actually be very comfortable right now (her profession has less earning capacity than mine but the work is still well paid), but as it is, we're basically signed up to another decade at least of being a bit skint. We can pay the mortgage and so forth, but I work bloody hard (not implying that DP doesn't) and I really don't want to not reap any of the financial rewards of this. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that I should be able to have meals out, afford home improvements and soforth when I have a I high-pressure, high-responsibility, long-hours career.

More pressingly, I actually hate my job right now. I am constantly stressed, my sleep is shit and my workload and hours are just crushing me - I'm so unhappy. I desperately want to leave and do something different, but I am not qualified to do anything that pays anywhere near as much. I feel very very trapped because this means I can't leave without stopping HEing the children and DP getting a job. DP does know about this and is supportive but she doesn't really have a solution as she is so invested in the children remaining being HEd.

Basically, I am at a point where I feel that HE is really negatively impacting on my own life, happiness and autonomy (though I accept that everyone else in the family is happy and switching so that I am happier but they are unhappy instead would be a poor idea). I am also not convinced that HE really is the best thing for the children, I worry all the time that I am failing them by allowing them to not have a mainstream education.

I don't even really know what I'm asking here really...any suggestions for compromises or workarounds to either issue? Anyone been through similar?

Are there any meet ups for partners of home educators in your area? In our area, the "HE-men" meet up once a month or so for a night out, and that's exactly the sort of place you can talk it through with people who really understand your issue.

Another thing: if there is something you think it is important that your children learn right now, but your wife doesn't, the best way forward is for YOU to think of ways for your children to learn those things and follow through on them. Top tip: if you make simple maths problems and put them onto treasure hunt clues, then you can put the answers on pieces of paper stuck next to all the kitchen cabinets. When your child solves a clue, they can look inside the right cabinet for the next clue. Behind the last one is a prize, of course. Have a heap of something to do the adding with (like 5 forks plus 3 knives = how many objects? - I mean, you're in the kitchen anyway, so you might as well use what is at hand!!) There are all sorts of ideas like that out there. If your children aren't ready, they won't want to engage with the treasure hunt.

See if you can think of ways of facilitating your wife doing a tiny bit of part time work while you look after the children, even if it is a cottage industry from home, or else volunteer work for now. It can be pretty scary to contemplate getting back into the workforce after a 6 year gap.

" I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that I should be able to have meals out, afford home improvements and soforth when I have a I high-pressure, high-responsibility, long-hours career."

This was the one sentence that was pretty hard to read. Truly, once you are a parent, I don't think that it should be about YOU in that way. It should be about what is right for your family as a whole.

If your dp did go back to work who would cover all the holidays, the inset days, the sickness days and following quarantine days?

Btw my dd goes to school, always has, and she didn't learn to read until she was seven.

Could the two of you agree that for two hours a day the children follow a structured learning programme, while autonomous education continues for the rest of the time?

To make it easier for you to track and for your wife to track progress here are 3 resources to help:-

1. Reading - over on the SN board we RAVE about mimio headsprout. A personalised online reading programme. It has 80 structured reading lessons that adapt to your child and get thru the grim phonics stuff in a way that is both entertaining and engaging. It has an extremely strong evidence base too.

www.headsprout.com/index.cfm

20 mins per day online + 10-15 mins reading the accompanying books should have them at a reasonable standard within 6 months to a year tops, even if they have SN.

1. Maths - conquermaths.com has a superb reputation and will cover off the basics if they do 30 mins a day. Again you'll be able to see concrete progress tracking.

1. Handwriting - "write from the start" by Theodurescu is a developmentally appropriate hand writing programme. 15 mins a day is enough to develop a neat hand over a school year for children with no major SN's.

That allows for snack/rest breaks in between the 3 core activities and gives you the reassurance that they are making basic academic progress in the 3 R's.

Once children can do basic sums, read and physically write letters curiosity takes care of the rest at this age. A child who can write can then be encouraged to keep a diary for 10 mins a day, starting with a very simple sentence and building up. (spelling, grammer and punctuation help can be given as needed). A child who can read will want to explore their interests via the library etc.

I think the above might be enough to get them over their current academic hurdles and give you the reassurance you need that autonomous education can work in the long term without making your wife feel like her whole day's schedule is being dictated to, or that you want to undermine her whole preferred approach.

... and if it is you who wants them to be doing structured learning, then it is you who should be delivering it.

I feel that very strongly. Your wife may not wish to have a top-down structured educational relationship with your children and, since lack of top-down structured relationship is a perfectly viable way of approaching HE, you have no business trying to force her to do something else. I would be beyond furious if my partner tried to control my educational interactions with our children on a daily basis towards something I did not believe to be the most efficacious approach.

I think there's room for compromise if the father is not to feel that his contribution to the family is only that of a disrespected cash
point.

A couple of hours per day including breaks to try a slightly different approach for a few months only isn't the end of the world. Not if the alternative is the two parents becoming so polarised & silently resentful in their opinions that eventually a huge bust occurs between them.

It's a team effort, not a dictatorship.

(Normally I'm the last person to side with a bloke on principle).

Thank you all very much for your responses.

TheWomanTheyCallJayne - If your dp did go back to work who would cover all the holidays, the inset days, the sickness days and following quarantine days?
I would. I'm actually a (Senior Leadership Team) teacher so I would be at home for some of the holidays and would be able to take the DC into the school building with me on the days I'm in there. The sickness etc would I guess be covered equally by DP and me.

Omwad - Are there any meet ups for partners of home educators in your area? In our area, the "HE-men" meet up once a month or so for a night out, and that's exactly the sort of place you can talk it through with people who really understand your issue.

That's a good idea. I will try to arrange something, I'm sure DP would be supportive. (BTW though, I'm a woman!)

" I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that I should be able to have meals out, afford home improvements and soforth when I have a I high-pressure, high-responsibility, long-hours career." This was the one sentence that was pretty hard to read. Truly, once you are a parent, I don't think that it should be about YOU in that way. It should be about what is right for your family as a whole.

I'm sorry, that was phrased badly. I didn't mean at all that I want to be out fine dining while the kids weep miserably at the school gates. I was trying to articulate that I wish for a better quality of financial life for all of us. To eat out together and improve our home together rather than scrimping and saving. I never envisioned that that is how my life would be, and I do feel resentful (general hopeless resentment, not resentment aimed at DP or the DC) that it is, particularly as I work so hard for the money I do earn, and that earning it makes me so miserable, IYSWIM.

If it is you who wants them to be doing structured learning, then it is you who should be delivering it.
Thank you for the suggestion. The obstacle here though, is when? The current arrangement is that I do the paid paid employment and DP does the HE. I leave the house at 7am (DC are still asleep) and am home in time for bath-time at about 7pm. I work one weekend day (mostly out of the house). I could do some structured learning on that day, and I will absolutely try to step up and do some then, but I'm not sure that a half hour burst every seven days will be that beneficial.

I also consider our DC a joint enterprise. I absolutely respect what DP is doing, I know that she has researched it fully and totally believes and is committed to what she does with the DC. But they are our children. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to take an interest in and have an opinion on their education. My concerns are not in any way anything to do with me trying to "control" her.

bochead - Thank you for the very detailed and useful advice and resources. I will look carefully at them tonight and then DP and I will discuss it together. I think she will be open to such a suggestion and not feel undermined or dictated to.

Thank you too for the empathy, but in this case I do not think that DP views me as a "disrespected cashpoint" (I hope!). She and I are generally solid and kind to each other. She tries to understand my feelings about this (as I do hers) but it feels that we are in very polarised positions on the matter right now. Hopefully your suggestions might go some way to shifting that.

It seems to me that these are two quite separate issues, and the really essential one is rescuing yourself from the job you hate so thoroughly. You really can't go on like this. The whole family will suffer if you do.

The sort of situation you describe is not specific to home educating families. I'm sure there are many people who are in crisis because of being in a stressful job they hate, who feel trapped, and who can see no good way out. You and your wife together have got to find a solution. I have an idea that if you properly brainstorm it, you may find more possible answers than the two you've mentioned (i.e. either you continue as you are, or the kids go to school while your wife works so you can afford to take a pay cut to change to a less hateful job). There may well be a more radical or creative answer which has the potential to make all of you happy.

If you find that the two of you keep going round in circles about it, maybe discuss it on Mumsnet - I don't know whether there's a board where people talk about life/career changes? - or ask a friend to help you think it through. Perhaps you are a bit stuck in your thinking at the moment.

Your concerns about the kids' education matter too, and I don't want to make light of that, but considering the long hours and bad sleep you are having at the minute, maybe that is a topic which can be put on hold for a few months longer while you get yourself into a better place.

Carn you need to separate out the two completely different issues of your misery in your job and the HE.

I'd start with the job (you do sound very unhappy where you are and it seems to be colouring your thinking) and also look at the possibility of your wife working PT. I don't suppose she is in healthcare or something that would lend itself to some evening shifts?

In the meantime, you could also scope out some more structured online resources like this and see if your wife would compromise by introducing them two mornings a week or similar. Try that for a term at least.

X post Saracen

Is your wife a qualified teacher too? Just wondering, because if you re and she's not, this would obviously lead to you worrying about her not leading learning well enough.

We're in a similar financial situation although not HE - my DH feels very similarly to you. I SAH with our toddler and he works a long hours, stressful job for what on paper looks like good money but it just evaporates every month. If I went back to work we'd be better off and be able to afford stuff like babysitters, house improvements, meals out, maybe even holidays. But we both feel this and both resent it, so we do talk about it. It's just the modern world - to lead a reasonable quality of life financially, you do need both people working. I share your frustration that even having a senior job isn't good enough these days. But I don't have the answer. I'd be wary of putting distance between you and your wife though - I hate it when DH bangs on about his hard job and long hours, like I'm sat on my bum all day! You need to keep communicating. Does she enjoy HE (when you're not interfering)? Was she in agreement at the time with you that it was a short term arrangement? It sounds like you need to separate out your work / finance frustrations and just focus on what's best for the children for now. If you're making sacrifices to HE you need to be confident that those sacrifices are worth it. If you approach your wife with it being about money and her possibly going back to work, she will definitely be defensive, but if you discuss what's best for the children, praise her and genuinely listen to her opinion on how it's going, you might find out that you're not poles apart on things anyway. I bet she would love more money too - she just doesn't have any ability to do anything about it, she has made significant sacrifices to HE your children so you need to respect that. Having said all that - I would never HE, not long term anyway, and would share your concerns (as a teacher myself).

^I think there's room for compromise if the father is not to feel that his contribution to the family is only that of a disrespected cash
point.^

^This.

I think as a teacher too, you do have some ideas of what will/ won't be beneficial in terms of getting them through this academic system.

I have a child with some mild developmental delay (actually am considering HE, he is in Y3 but struggles with school). I never did anything with him at home as he was not interested and I didn't want to 'push'. I have actually disadvantaged him the way the academic system is set up (I am wiser now, and would definitely not HE in the way I brought him up for his first 4 years). Some simple things like doing days of the week, telling the time etc. could have helped him a lot. He needs a LOT of repetition, this is just the way he learns. I genuinely do not believe that if he gone into school at 7 and started to read that he would be at the level he is now. It has taken repeat, repeat, repeat. Some kids are very fast learners (ds2) and some are not. You can't rely on the fact your dd will suddenly learn to read at 7. I think many kids may be able to start and do it, but particularly if she has some social immaturity and a lack of interest in learning, it indicates she probably finds it difficult so it's not going to come out of the blue 'when she's older'. (I am saying this based on the little I know of mild SEN). It will be a bit late when she is 10 to start acknowledging problems. The gap widens and widens.

But I am coming at this from a non HE background!

I think the expectations of what your dd should be able to do are not unreasonable at all. But I think, realistically, she will be severely disadvantaged if she joins school now. Not only will she be socially immature, but very much behind academically, and this will impact her confidence hugely. I think you and your DP need to work out how to progress things so that you are both happy...they are your children too and it is selfish of DP to completely disregard your expertise in this area for her own political or even parenting ideals.

Saracen - Thank you, the brainstorming options is a good approach. I use it on the DC sometimes (I stole it from How To Talk So KIds Will Listen!) and it is often surprisingly helpful . We'll have a go at that tomorrow night maybe.

TheJumped - Is your wife a qualified teacher too? Just wondering, because if you re and she's not, this would obviously lead to you worrying about her not leading learning well enough.

No, DP isn't a teacher (though she used to work in education) but I don't think I am critical of everything she does with our DCs educationally (perhaps she disagrees). I am secondary teacher so my experience does not run to such small children and I am awe of anyone who can make a success - of any degree- of teaching littlies.

Does she enjoy HE (when you're not interfering)?
Yes, very much. And she has a very supportive local HE community.

I hate it when DH bangs on about his hard job and long hours, like I'm sat on my bum all day! You need to keep communicating.
Agreed! I do try not to be a moaner and engage in oneupwomanship. So does she - she is generally very supportive of me. Equally I absolutely respect all she does and how hard she works.

If you're making sacrifices to HE you need to be confident that those sacrifices are worth it.
Ah yes, this is the crux of the thing really. I know that many of you have said that I need to separate the two issues (me hating my job and the concerns about HE) but actually I think I would be more reconciled to be miserable in my job if I was confident that what I was 'buying' was absolutely the best experience for the children, IYSWIM?

Carn, if it's any consolation, I think HE is better than school if done well. Especially with SEN as the school environment can be very damaging to confidence and the 1:1 can really help kids learn fast. However, I also imagine it could go really wrong too.

What does your DP teach the kids? Does she have any structure? Plans? Do you discuss them? Or is it taking each day as it comes? Which must make you fret a bit. (I remember when my ds was little there was this HE family who were always in the softplay). Is she going to go with 'when they're interested', I'll teach it. Is there a time limit on that?

Just realised your eldest is a ds. Sorry. Doesn't change anything I wrote though!

The obvious answer is for you to go part time, your wife to go to work part time, and the two of you educate your DC in your own way on your days off.

Sorted.

Do bear in mind my own child has pretty major special needs so my fave resources are by definition pretty biased. (However he left school at the end of Year 4 unable to read in any meaningful sense, and Headsprout has corrected that issue this year).

I just suggested them with the intention that perhaps they might form a starting point for discussion & a proper brainstorm between you, rather than concrete recommendations.

Sorry for assuming you were a bloke too .

Thank you for your replies.

MerryMarigold - What does your DP teach the kids? Does she have any structure? Plans? Do you discuss them? Or is it taking each day as it comes?

It is autonomous learning, which means that there is no curriculum as such. The DC do take part in lots of really nice activities and trips with the local HE group (both formally and informally) so the structure is more 'on Thursdays we go to HE circus skills group, on Tuesday we are going to the Science Museum'.

When we first started HE, DP and I used to 'debrief' every Friday evening so that we could discuss issues and share triumphs etc, but this has rather fallen by the wayside (both our faults, I think: I have been working such long hours it was hard to find the time - after the DC are in bed at 8, I then need to work until about half twelve - and she is now much more settled and confident in what she's doing so needs the reassurance less). We should probably try to re-instate it.

You can't rely on the fact your dd will suddenly learn to read at 7. I think many kids may be able to start and do it, but particularly if she has some social immaturity and a lack of interest in learning, it indicates she probably finds it difficult so it's not going to come out of the blue 'when she's older'.

Yes, that is very much my concern. I am in no way qualified to diagnose SEN, but I do have fairly extensive experience in teaching children with a range of needs, and I am fairly confident that a 'they'll do it when they are ready' approach is often not the best approach for children who are having difficulties accessing the learning. At this stage we don't know why DS is so reluctant to go near anything that he suspects is reading or writing, but my educational background (appreciate I am secondary so maybe I'm talking out of my hat) means that I am unwilling to not at least consider some form of MLD and support him with this.

On the other hand, DP is an intelligent woman and works so hard at what she does with the DC and is very well read on all the theory. I feel very disloyal articulating concern with her approach. I know I probably wouldn't take kindly to her implying that she knew how to do my job better than I do!

Is she going to go with 'when they're interested', I'll teach it. Is there a time limit on that?

I think that DP favours this approach, broadly. No, there's no time limit, and one of the things that panicked me was her relaying an anecdote from a HE presentation in which a child did not read at all until he or she was nine. DP seemed fine about that. I am not.

Driveway - The obvious answer is for you to go part time, your wife to go to work part time, and the two of you educate your DC in your own way on your days off.

Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately, PT work is not really an option for me. I also do not have any desire to HE the DC myself. Money would also be an issue with this idea, as if I half my salary, the amount could not be made up by DP working PT. Her area pays far less than mine, plus she has been out of the workplace for some time.

Why is your wife so keen on HEing? Can you sort out the bad school issue, and find them a reasonably good school? School seems the obvious option, and I would put my efforts into finding them a decent state school, even if it means a bit of a commute. Then your wife could look for a job, either full time using late clubs, or part time.
Or she could work full time, and maybe you could go private.
Is she doing what's best for the DCs, or what she most enjoys doing for herself? I'd be worried too, in your position, and frustrated.

bochead - Sorry for assuming you were a bloke

Not at all! Completely understandable assumption

Do bear in mind my own child has pretty major special needs so my fave resources are by definition pretty biased...I just suggested them with the intention that perhaps they might form a starting point for discussion & a proper brainstorm between you, rather than concrete recommendations.

I am very grateful for them. I spent quite a bit of time this morning reading through, and I am very keen to give Headsprouts a whirl. And I really appreciate being given definite 'possible alternative approaches' to bring to the discussion, rather than me simply whining that I'm not happy with DP's approach.

ThreeTomatoes - Thank you for the article. I will read it when I get a break for lunch.

Dinosaursareextinct - Why is your wife so keen on HEing?

A mixture of personal reasons (not a great experience of formal education herself) and political reasons (a concern about government over-testing, and so forth).

I was also worried about DC1 starting Reception back when we initially made the decision to HE, but my reasons were a little different. Basically, I 'recognised' in my child behaviours and characteristics which I know can make school quite a miserable place for him. (I am secondary, but it applies generally, I think). It was clear to me that he would struggle to 'fit in' and be happy, and this was confirmed after speaking to DC1's key worker at a parent meeting at the playgroup he attending for three half-days a week. I want my child to be happy. I don't want him to be the child who struggles through each school day. I see those children at work and my heart breaks for them.

That isn't to say that no school is right for such children. It is a case (I believe) of finding the school which is the right fit for them, which gets them and supports them. In our case (and we looked at all the possible schools in the catchment), I really didn't think that there were any who could manage this.

School seems the obvious option, and I would put my efforts into finding them a decent state school.

We have moved house since the situation I described above so yes, this is a possibility. DC1 is also older, so it is quite possible that he could thrive in the right school for him now.

However, DP would be vehemently against this course of action. She strongly believes that HE is the best thing for our DCs. I cannot - and would not - demand that the DC are put into mainstream education against her wishes. I am also aware that she in fact is better qualified than me to determine what would work best for the DCs. She is the parent who spends all day with them, after all.

It's tricky.

Is she doing what's best for the DCs, or what she most enjoys doing for herself?

DP absolutely is committed to HE as being the right thing for our DCs. I respect and greatly appreciate the sacrifices she has made to do this. She is lucky enough that HE is something that she really enjoys and finds rewarding. Maybe I'm just jealous!

Can I just add a couple more suggestions for resources?

My now 7 yo ds, who sounds similar to your eldest, learnt to read when he was 6 and a half, with the '20 easy lessons' book. He had got to a stage where he could see the benefit in learning to read and wanted to do it himself. Now he's an avid reader.

Also, we use the 'Life of Fred' maths books, we read a chapter a day and work through the problems afterwards. My ds likes this as they are entertaining stories, but has learnt an awful lot of maths.

I'd say we spend max 20 min a day on these things, but it has made a real difference. Then the rest of the time is spent on sports / meetups / trips etc.

It's interesting, OP. I know a few HE people and they believe in it so strongly, I think that if you started HEing in a let's give it a go way, and then joined that kind of HE group, you could in a way get sucked in to the belief that HE is vastly superior to school, sending your children to school would be very unfair on them, etc etc. Whereas if your children go to school you are surrounded by people who would never dream of HEing and are on the whole very happy with the way their child is being educated. Primary school is a lot of fun for most children, IME, and they seem to learn a lot too.