Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

Of course they have hours to work, but there is nothing at all to say that they need a maths period, a literacy period etc. They might want to have an entire day doing the history, they might have a visiting PE person coming in and change the PE day. Because they generally do maths at 9.30 on a Monday doesn't mean they want to do it every Monday at 9.30.
If the weather is nice they might want to pop out and fit in a science experiment that they couldn't do when it rained, or they might just want to do some games.
Even if they have a general pattern e.g. with a music person coming in at a set time they want the flexibility to change. How unfair to have flexibility in HE and then expect schools unable to do the same.

Schools want to work with the enthusiasm. If a class was really into Science and it got to home time they may well want to continue first thing the next morning while it is fresh and enthusiastic and move whatever they had timetabled until later rather than say 'sorry, we have to wait until the afternoon because that is the timetable'. There is no reason while they can't change it.

Tamer.

That wasn't the experience I had visiting many primary schools, nor indeed that of my dc.
Sometimes yes, something would be changed but not very often as it would interfere with planning and schemes of work that had been meticulously drawn up to meet the hours required for each subject.
I don't think they could drop or pick up a subject just because the weather was good, but as I say that's just my experience.
I often thought how nice it would be for the children to be able to do this.

Maybe you are all just used to big junior schools and not small rural schools. You do seem to have very cut and dried ideas of schools and not be used to the concept that some can be different. e.g one that I know has a day a week where they mix all the age groups and do different topics, or one that has a teaching day on a Monday and then they plan their own work so they don't have to break off when they are in the middle of something. The same school doesn't have a playtime as such-they take it when they want to take it.

It now seems like you are arguing for HE principles but just not at home or something Tamer. Seriously haven't you got any grandmothers to teach to suck eggs, or something?

It seems strange that it is accepted that all HE is different but schools have to work in a set way. They can be very different-as long as it works. Both my 2 examples are graded outstanding by Ofsted.

None of the primary schools around here work to strict timeables, they all have a flexible approach as Tamer describes. I know that because my friend has tried these schools to enrol her DD in as a flexi- student and this has been the main stumbling block. Certainly from my many years of working in school most teachers have a flexible structure to the day, yes they need to keep up thehours for the syllbus, but swapping subjects around during the day ar ewek seems pretty common practice.

Not really suitable for the HE pupil who just wants to come to a few subjects.

All learning at primary school tends to be topic/project based anyway, so I'm not sure how helpful picking up certain subjects out of context will be.

Some schools do work like that Sparklyboots-HEers are keener to think they are in straight jackets.

Tamer

My ds went to a small rural school, 30 in total from yr to y6.
When we moved out of the area they were threatened with closure as not enough children.
It remained open though after lots of local partitioning.
I think they found it more important to stick to what was planned, but obviously with fewer children there was quite often time left over they could utilise, also ds often said they'd done whatever subject on the school field. I know where you are coming from in that respect, but I don't think its far spread, don't forget many schools don't have much outside space to do this.
The last school dd attended had a small playground, and small field. The next school and all the others just had small playgrounds surrounded by school buildings.

I mean petitioning not partitioning.

I am not going to jot around the country posting links, but an example of where they work on teams and organise their own time without a set playtime is here -a perfectly normal state school. They don't even have a uniform.If you look at 'about our school' and 'our learning' you will see that it is not timetabled.I am not 'teaching grandmothers to suck eggs' -some schools work very successfully on what you might like to call 'HE principles' and they do keep abreast quite easily, they have individual planners. They are not even a small school. It isn't unique-there are others who do their own thing. I can't imagine many want to give up their flexibility to cater for one family who want to be flexible. I imagine funding is another stumbling block.

I know primary schools can be relatively flexible once you discount the scheduling of staff, etc. I just don't think it's that hard to keep up with a primary school curriculum. I also don't get what the problem is with HE since you are pretty much extolling the virtues of its interest and project led approach, but only in school as you appear upthread to think HEers should be working with strict curricula. I am not keen to think schools are straightjacketed. I just know that relative to the flexibilty you have in HE, they are. Point to a single school which ditched all the lesson plans and spent the week in the garden and I might revise that opinion. You literally want it both ways,: HE isn't good enough because it's not structured and inspected but schools are somehow structured and inspected and as flexible as HE. HEers would all get flexi schooling if only they followed your advice on LEAs but shouldn't be offered it because they would force schools to work to the very targets and timetables that you think HE is missing. The only consistent position you've had on this thread is that you know better than everyone else about schools and about HE. Unless you are actually Estelle Morris I find that highly unlikely.

you appear upthread to think HEers should be working with strict curricula

I have at no point said this!

Point to a single school which ditched all the lesson plans and spent the week in the garden and I might revise that opinion

I wouldn't want my child at a school like this!! They can do it in HE because you have the 13 weeks extra to schools.

Unless you are actually Estelle Morris I find that highly unlikely.
You think Estelle Morris has a clear idea?

I think schools should be flexible. I think that HEers should be free to think outside the box and to work in an 'unschool' like way.
I don't believe that radical unschooling is an education -and letting the DCs do as they please in the thought that one day they will get their act together and all doors for their future will open is, at best misguided, at worst failing their children badly.

The only consistent position you've had on this thread is that you know better than everyone else about schools and about HE.

I haven't said this either-it is my opinion and I am entitled to give it. You don't have to read it! Hide me.

Struggling to know why Estelle Morris should know much about it.

I'm struggling to know how we have 13 weeks extra to school. We, personally take the same holidays as school do and more, we usually double up on half terms, have the same in summer and usually don't do anything structured during December, due to other commitments.

I am surprised that HEers should want to take holidays and structure their year into terms like that- isn't that a bit erm,.... structured?

HEers are for ever saying they have much more time-they don't waste it and they can get the same as they achieve in school in 2 hours. If I was HEing the huge advantage would be not to take school holidays but take them in May/June/early July and September when places are quieter and cheaper. If you are going to have the same as school you can have 13 weeks when you can go out in the garden for a whole week.

HEers also have complete flexibility-if they are in the middle of something they can carry on into a holiday. Imagine schools saying 'we didn't get chance to finish our work on the Romans-we will need to use 2 days of holiday'!!!

twelve

For us it makes sense as some of dds friends attend school and a lot of her activities are managed on a termly basis and close during school holidays.
We are going to Rome in June and dd wants to do several projects, so she can incorporate Music, History, RE, Geography, and of course Italian.
Yes, it is a lot cheaper, the same trip in the holidays was about 1k more expensive.
Then maybe we will go away again between September and November.
Maybe somewhere in the UK, not sure yet.

But then surely you continue to home educate during school holidays when your DD is not seeing her friends- and you will have more time without extra ativities.
I just find it odd that you should adopt the same term structure as schooled children.

Twelve

Why would we surely continue to H.ed during school holidays? for what reason?
These are the days we chill, have family outings, visit friends and family etc.
She does do her music practice most days during school holidays. So its a good mix really.

Twelve

Many H.ed children are independent learners, so whilst they aren't sitting at a desk with a text book, or listening to a teacher they use all sorts of situations to gain knowledge.
So in this respect they are always H.ed.
Just as I'm sure if your child asked you a question at 9pm, as a parent you would answer to your best knowledge. You wouldn't say its not a school day, or school hours etc.
So in this respect H.ed dc are always learning something.
Its a different philosophy.
Some school children, well the one's I've known wouldn't necessarily look for educational opportunities outside school as they are programmed to finish at 3pm. If I'd have suggested extra work for any of my dc they'd have said they'd done school and homework, they wouldn't want to do more.

I have just spent 20 minutes with ds1 (age 9) trying to get him to learn his spellings and times tables. He was playing educational games on the computer, so in theory fun. He has been crying and growling. He wouldn't do this at school if his teacher said come and learn on the computer, he'd do it and think himself lucky. I am a qualified, experienced primary teacher.
Anyway, how do you get your h.ed dcs to do any kind of learning? Do they cry and growl or am I lucky?

spanky

I can only speak of my experience but I don't try and get dd to do anything.
I started off with schemes of work, plans and a time table but it just didn't happen, nor was needed.
My dd was a reluctant reader and writer, so I posted on here for advice.
The autonomous H.ed parents seemed unanimous that if I let her be, she would do it in her own time.
I will admit to having little faith at this point, but I tried.
For 6 months nothing, she did hardly anything. Then out of the blue she decided if she didn't read or write she would be behind. Now she does it on her own and enjoys both reading and writing for pleasure.
The penny has just dropped with spellings now, she knows they are dreadful and has asked for a list and a weekly test.
I think H.ed is different to school though, my ds went to school and getting them to do it was a nightmare.
Maybe it is synonymous to schooled children, if this makes you feel better. I hear lots of parents complain about it.