Keeping toddlers safe around an unfenced villa pool on holiday

[OneProudCrab]

Very excited to be going on our first family holiday to a villa. We have DS1 (3yr) and DS2 (13 months crawler). There will be PIL (but are fairly hands off parenting) and BIL with a baby also.

Ive started to get a bit paranoid about pool safety after hearing some terrible statistic that it is the number one cause of death in 1-3yr olds (think it was the US and haven't fact checked so it may be completely false but nevertheless I'm worried still).

The villa does not have a fence around it and I think the idea was to spend a lot of time in the outdoor shady area that is close but not directly overlooking the pool.

Any advice other than to stay super vigilant on how to keep kids safe and allow us to relax as much as we can whilst they play?

A safety cover is also allowed in France and IME these are much more common than an alarm or fence. But yes if it’s somewhere like France or elsewhere in the EU and this villa has been booked through a reputable platform I highly doubt there’s an illegal pool so if there isn’t a fence there will be an allowed alternative.

I went on holiday with DP, his best friend and DS who was turning 2. The friend was in charge of sorting accommodation in Lisbon for a few days and sent us links to places he had seen. The best one had huge sliding windows - it was on the 4th floor. I clocked this straight away and said no but because we were only staying for two nights and there was nowhere else within our budget the decision was made for me 😠 But yes, I didn’t let my DS out of my sight. It was a lovely apartment but not for toddlers! 😩

You can buy door alarms on Amazon- not expensive- they sound a loud alarm when the door is open , when I went to Florida there was one on the back door to the pool and when I moved into my current house I ordered one to put on our back door as there was a pond in the garden and I had a 2 year old ( only until the fencing arrived) - in addition to this I had a ring camera that would notify me of any movement in the garden .

obviously these things would be on top of 24/7 allocated supervision.

Yes this buys a little time, but my 2 toddlers unlock stair gates eoth relative ease, they're baby engineers. I wouldn't book a villa with pool full stop until kids were teens to be honest.

I wouldn’t go but I went on a paediatric first aid course recently and we got on the topic with of children and pools.
The instructor says it’s never any good to say we’ll all watch, because that’s when accidents happen because everyone else assumes someone else has eyes on them.
So instead when next to the pool you specifically say ‘Fred, you are watching little Fred when we are next to the pool’
by designating a specific adult to a specific child it makes people more vigilant.
It only takes one person to forget to lock a door though when someone thinks a child is sleeping or otherwise engaged and they could be out near the pool.
Staying in that state of hyper vigilance wouldn’t be a holiday for me, I’m a worrier at the best of times!

Who booked this?! This will not be a relaxing holiday! What were you thinking?!

My toddler ( about 14/ 15 months old) came close to walking into a deep pond when at PILs. Kids that age don’t really understand about ponds/ canals and that it’s not a hard surface! He went outside with FIL. I was in the house and FIL walked back in alone. ‘Where is ds1?!’ I asked ‘in the garden’ said FIL. ‘You have a pond!’ I said. ‘He won’t walk in, will he?’ Said FIL. I ran out, pond was at bottom of long garden, and managed to grab ds1 back as he had stepped out to walk into the pond.

I also know a family whose toddler died on a holiday with a pool. A young, but slightly older, child pushed him in. He was found faced down in the pool when the ashen faced older child returned alone, unable to talk.

There is no way to make this a no stress holiday where you can relax. Either you or H will need to be on constant guard and with two such young children who are both mobile and able to move in different directions it will be very hard to do that.

If you have not paid the full balance, I would forfeit the deposit and cancel.

Who booked this?! This will not be a relaxing holiday! What were you thinking?!

My toddler ( about 14/ 15 months old) came close to walking into a deep pond when at PILs. Kids that age don’t really understand about ponds/ canals and that it’s not a hard surface! He went outside with FIL. I was in the house and FIL walked back in alone. ‘Where is ds1?!’ I asked ‘in the garden’ said FIL. ‘You have a pond!’ I said. ‘He won’t walk in, will he?’ Said FIL. I ran out, pond was at bottom of long garden, and managed to grab ds1 back as he had stepped out to walk into the pond.

I also know a family whose toddler died on a holiday with a pool. A young, but slightly older, child pushed him in. He was found faced down in the pool when the ashen faced older child returned alone, unable to talk.

There is no way to make this a no stress holiday where you can relax. Either you or H will need to be on constant guard and with two such young children who are both mobile and able to move in different directions it will be very hard to do that.

If you have not paid the full balance, I would forfeit the deposit and cancel.

I also think if you have ‘relaxed’ PIL, this will create extra conflict where they keep having g a go at you for being uptight, not relaxing, over cautious and ruining their holiday, whilst you resent them for this.

I just don’t think anything about this ‘holiday’ sounds fun and I’d rather lose the deposit than go on this holiday. You’ll have a more relaxing time at home off work.

I’m so sorry but there really is no way to relax on a holiday like this.

You will need to set some very strong ground rules, in particular that doors to the outside must always be closed and locked. This is very hard to enforce in hot weather.

When sitting outside someone must always take responsibility for having an eye on both children at once.

I grew up in Australia and it is really takes seconds for a baby or toddler to die. Their pool fence rules are very strict but they are there for a reason.

I have a feeling that this OP is taking us for a ride.

I certainly HOPE so

Pretty unanimous responses OP, what are you going to do?

I doubt there is any holiday

I had a similar situation last year except it was slightly eased by the fact there were two villas with the pool inbetween. We had our own villa and were obviously vigilant about shutting and locking the door when we were inside showering/cooking etc, it wouldn’t have worked at all if we were in the other one with extended family who wanted the patio doors open at all times. We also bought this rash vest style top that has a life jacket inside that inflates as soon as it hits water that we put on the toddler if my brothers were watching her while we popped to the shops etc. I was really, really worried before we went but actually it was absolutely fine. I think just keep in mind that children usually don’t drown when you’re all doing dedicated pool time, it’s when people are distracted- showering, packing the changing bag, making a bottle etc. those are the times they need to be indoors with the doors closed. Also just remember to buy really brightly coloured swimwear and that if you can’t see them you need to check right at the edges of the pool, they might not be immediately visible as if they fall in the pool they sink straight away and will be close to the wall. Sorry, really awful thing to even type x

That’s why I said as a minimum.

pool security gates tend to be harder to open than stair gates and also require the toddler to drag a chair over for the height but I still would not risk it.

I think there is a lot of hyperbolic thinking if you aren’t used it to. I know many many many kids who grew up this way and never heard of an accident

conversely having lived around pools for a decade I have seen/heard of many accidents. I watched my own DD at 4yrs slip into a pool and exhibit zero survival skills and simply sink to the bottom; a child (who could swim) in my DCs school wandered out a closed door and was found at the bottom of a pool.

I’ve been on holiday with a pool with a locked gate where an adult “forgot” to close it and at a party where young DC were caught stacking up chairs and cushions to climb over a pool fence.

there’s not a chance

You have to have a totally unrelaxing holiday . The trouble with groups is everyone thinks everyone else is watching the child. You will have to personally be on alert the entire time. Even if you say to someone "watch x for ten mins whilst I go to the toilet" if they've been enjoying a holiday drink they will say yes, but they won't watch properly or they'll forget.

And on top of that everyone will have a go at you for being OTT in your watching and telling you to relax a little and you'll end up really pissed off with the whole holiday.

Can you tell this has happened to me?!

Its not just by the pool, make sure that doors are closed and locked
at all times you are in the house. I went ona womens mother and baby yoga trip and one of the other mums said her best friends daughter drowned while they were packing in their ground floor hotel room by escaping the sliding doors and heading straight for the pool. That story has never left me and I bave been like a hawk whenever we are around pools ever since. So easily done, just forgetting to lock the door while you are busy and life is changed forever.

My parents have an unfenced pool and babies/toddlers/kids have lived in the house over many years. It's fine, just needs strong communication and open eyes.
I'd never cross my mind 'not to stay there'.

We all have our perceptions of risk - I'm fine with this as I know how to manage it, I absolutely hate big playgrounds and am convinced the kids will fall and break their necks and be paralysed. I know it's on the irrational side of fear, but why do we create inherently massively dangerous structures for kids to go up? The majority of people think it's fine. That doesn't mean it is (I mean, I know the risk is actually vv low - but it remains possible). Just like the majority of people thinking this isn't fine doesn't mean it isn't. It's up to you. Nothing is risk free in life but this one wouldn't bother me.

You’ll just have to keep an eye on the children at all times with audible tag in tag out between you and DH. “Can you watch both kids while I nip to the loo” or “I’m going inside to prep lunch, can you watch both kid's both kids” etc. Me and DH learnt to do this at his parents house who have a large unfenced pond. Lots of agreeing who’s watching who at all times rather than just assuming someone’s watching the kids.

You won’t be lying down reading a book or sunbathing. But that’s holidays with young kids anyway isn’t it?

i am somewhat concerned about your attitude in your post OP. You are ‘super excited’ for the holiday. Suggesting the death statistics for pools and young kids may be false. Are looking for advice as to how ‘us’ ( you and your H) can relax on holiday.

You can’t. You and H can’t relax together on this holiday if you want to ensure your kids are safe. And you need to replace being ‘super excited’ with being super vigilant.

As others have said, the high number of adults ( 5?) on this holiday increases the risk as thats five adults who can leave a door open etc. Thats three other adults whose primary aim is to relax and not be super vigilant.

I am a parent who is hands off, things risk is important for children. I have been side eyed and gasped at and, on occasion, outright condemned by other parents for what I let my kids do, but no way would I have even considered that villa as suitable for kids that age. The risks my kids took were around climbing trees and stuff. Stuff they can incrementally learn how to do and be safe at. But water is different altogether. It’s just pure hazard at their ages and they’ll need constant supervision to be safe.

i wouldn’t go on that holiday. It’ll be hard work.

Your parents never bothered to spend the small amount on a fence around their pool?

One of you is nominated as the pool watching person at all times when you’re outside. That person doesn’t leave the pool side.

Watch out for kids slipping out of the villa unnoticed eg waking up early and going out through an unlocked door. Often the time that drowning accidents happen is when everyone thinks the kids are indoors so nobody is watching the pool.

You could ask if there is a cover for the pool but beware that this can give a false sense of security. Make sure there is no way a child could lift up the edge and squeeze in/under it. Also beware of them climbing on top: I know a child who nearly drowned because they climbed onto the cover which then sagged, the water came over the edges and the child was stuck face down in a puddle of water on top of the cover. Thankfully they were found in time.

Personally I’d change the villa if I could though, it’s not worth the risk.

I wouldn’t be going.. the risk is huge

And yet fenced pools are law in so many countries because so many children have died in so many unfenced pools. And so many people on here have takes of deaths and near misses avoided by mere happenchance.

Keeping toddlers safe around an unfenced villa pool on holiday

You can’t.

I’ve read too many safeguarding reviews, maybe, but you can’t 100% guarantee to eradicate the risk associated with human fallibility.

Like others, I wouldn’t go.

You cannot keep toddlers safe while living near an unfenced pool. It'd be different if you went to the pool and it was the only thing you were focussed on, you were there for a limited time and they were wearing armbands, everyone knew to be watching them because you're at the pool. That's already a bit dicey but totally normal. Having an open pool in your house though, where it takes a single second for one or the other of them to slip away and die, is just not going to work.