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Original poster

I'm taking my children on holiday with different surname

137 replies

C12 · 29/05/2023 14:47

I'm a mum taking my 2 daughters on holiday in summer holiday. They have their dad's surname and he's on their birth certificate however has nothing to with them and hasn't for 6 years. What actually happens if they ask for proof of permission from father and I don't have it? We have been abroad before but never asked for anything however I never realised was supposed to have permission

OP posts:
LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 30/05/2023 05:24

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

Lots of married mothers don’t change their name so don’t see the discrimination. It is about preventing child abduction and keeping children safe. Some things are more important than a little bit of discrimination and the permission thing isn’t based on surname.

marcopront · 30/05/2023 05:24

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

Many people have mentioned the name is irrelevant and that people with the same surname have been asked.

Nicecow · 30/05/2023 05:36

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

Agree. But think of it the other way too, where a parent may be "kidnapping", personally I'd rather the airports were more strict. My DC doesn't have the same surname for me, and this has been a thought of mine re travel

Bernadinetta · 30/05/2023 05:38

I have been asked only when entering Canada- I am divorced from DD’s father but we all still have the same surname (and we’re amicable), I was travelling on my own with DD. I had a signed letter from her father. I have never been asked when entering Spain or when returning to U.K. (have carried a letter just in case). I haven’t carried her birth certificate or marriage certificate and decree nisi or anything like that. I have provided a signed letter from myself when her Dad has taken her on holiday without me, but he hasn’t been asked. To be honest the letter could’ve been written and signed by anyone- typed and printed and signed by him, but a random immigration desk person obviously doesn’t know his signature?! I didn’t have a photocopy of his passport or anything, maybe that would’ve been wise but the letter I had was accepted. We did type his phone number and his passport number onto the letter so if they’d really wanted to they could’ve looked into it in more detail.

Bernadinetta · 30/05/2023 05:39

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

I have the same surname as my DD but have been asked when travelling on my own with her.

Choconutty · 30/05/2023 06:47

I've been asked, but they let us through no problem - I've travelled loads with both my kids both before and after splitting with their dad.

How would they know if he has PR or not? I live in a 3rd country to the one I'm from and my kids were born - here, ex doesn't have PR until it's granted by the court, but in the UK he does just by being on the birth certificate - how is this in any way manageable? I can see that it would work for if someone put a hold on their kids travelling perhaps, but otherwise, what possible security does having a signed letter (signed by anyone) bring to the situation?

wineandsunshine · 30/05/2023 07:22

@tribpot we are travelling to Rhodes.

mewkins · 30/05/2023 07:44

christmastreefarm · 29/05/2023 16:57

I went to Iceland, same name as my children and got asked for a letter on arrival in Reykjavik

I'm never asked (I have the same name as my children) and their dad is never asked either when he takes them abroad.

MothBat · 30/05/2023 09:57

Abroad isn't one place. I've been asked as the country I went to requires permission to travel from both parents. Was allowed in on that occasion. Have been asked what the relationship was on return to UK at Eurostar station (different surnames) but didn't have to show any evidence. Check the rules for the country you are going to.

toothbrusher · 30/05/2023 12:44

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

Couldn’t agree more. My abusive ex and his wife can take my daughter out of the country no questions asked while he has to give me permission to go anywhere. Just another way of maintaining his control

InglouriousBasterd · 30/05/2023 13:03

I’ve been asked most times I’ve travelled (all Europe) and they usually ask DD who the lady is she’s travelling with. I have a letter from
her dad but I’ll take a copy of her birth certificate next time having seen this!

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 30/05/2023 13:26

toothbrusher · 30/05/2023 12:44

Couldn’t agree more. My abusive ex and his wife can take my daughter out of the country no questions asked while he has to give me permission to go anywhere. Just another way of maintaining his control

Show quote history

How many times, not true. When I was asked they hadn’t even looked in the passports yet to see that we had different names. They saw I was traveling on my own without another parent and asked to see the permission.
yes maybe they are less likely to ask if your ex is traveling with a partner but surely that works the other way round for you aswell.

marcopront · 30/05/2023 13:42

@toothbrusher

Couldn’t agree more. My abusive ex and his wife can take my daughter out of the country no questions asked while he has to give me permission to go anywhere. Just another way of maintaining his control

Is this based on experience or just what you think will happen.

My daughter has my surname and I have been asked

toothbrusher · 30/05/2023 13:44

@marcopront yeah, they've taken her on hols many times without being asked. He doesn't even take a permission letter from me when offered. I've actually only ever been asked bringing her back into the country but he can keep it hanging over me whether he'll give the permission last minute or not. It's not fair

Discoverysnakes · 30/05/2023 14:58

I’ve been asked once coming back into the U.K. for the permission letter (which I happened to have). Several more times for birth certificates - the last time the passport man said now the kids were older they are nearly at the age they most often just ask them ( mine were 7 and 10 at the time). Only time aboard when I was asked in Europe was departing from Germany last year.

Interestingly their dad - my ex - has never been asked. I wonder if that’s also possibly because he travels with his new partner and my kids half sib - dad and all the kids have same surname.

marcopront · 30/05/2023 16:43

toothbrusher · 30/05/2023 13:44

@marcopront yeah, they've taken her on hols many times without being asked. He doesn't even take a permission letter from me when offered. I've actually only ever been asked bringing her back into the country but he can keep it hanging over me whether he'll give the permission last minute or not. It's not fair

Yes but many people here have not been asked either so it is about luck.

marcopront · 30/05/2023 16:46

Yes but many people here have not been asked either so it is about luck.

What I meant is there is evidence :

People with the same surnames have been asked

People with the same surnames haven't been asked

People with different surnames have been asked

People with different surnames haven't been asked

What does this tell you? Nothing

WilkinsonM · 30/05/2023 16:49

They are very likely to ask to see the birth certificates and very unlikely to ask for a letter of permission. If they do, explain that the father isn't in their lives and they will almost definitely wave you through. They aren't looking to punish regular people and stop them going on holiday. They are looking to stop people smuggling.

HicLocusEst · 30/05/2023 16:57

rightroyalblues · 29/05/2023 23:14

Surprised no one has brought up any mention of discrimination yet - why should unmarried mothers have to provide a birth certificate?! I have 3 members of staff at my workplace with the same surname as my son - any one of them could take him through an airport with no questions asked, yet his own mother can't?! There has to be a better system than this!!

Men travelling alone with children will almost always be stopped and questioned. It's one of the first guidelines in the handbook.
If you want to go with discrimination, it has only been in the last 20 years that unmarried fathers have been able to pass on nationality (for example)
Men are stopped more often than women as statistically they are more likely to abduct their own children in the event of an acrimonious divorce, and it tends to be the male members of a family who accompany female children abroad to be genitally mutilated or to be given over in child marriages.

As many people have said, it's nothing to do with surnames. That's an urban myth really. (years ago, I'm not sure if it's still in the Mumsnet guidelines) they produced a factsheet thing about what documents to take when travelling abroad with a minor who had a different surname. Several of us contacted them pointing out the actual government wording and asked them to change it. Don't know if they did.

The 3 members of staff wouldn't be allowed to take your son abroad if they were stopped and didn't have yours and the other parents permission.

@C12 the govt link explains what you need

To the poster with the 17 year old- you won't be stopped.

HicLocusEst · 30/05/2023 16:59

Discoverysnakes · 30/05/2023 14:58

I’ve been asked once coming back into the U.K. for the permission letter (which I happened to have). Several more times for birth certificates - the last time the passport man said now the kids were older they are nearly at the age they most often just ask them ( mine were 7 and 10 at the time). Only time aboard when I was asked in Europe was departing from Germany last year.

Interestingly their dad - my ex - has never been asked. I wonder if that’s also possibly because he travels with his new partner and my kids half sib - dad and all the kids have same surname.

It's because he travels with another adult who could feasibly be the child's parent.

HicLocusEst · 30/05/2023 17:00

WilkinsonM · 30/05/2023 16:49

They are very likely to ask to see the birth certificates and very unlikely to ask for a letter of permission. If they do, explain that the father isn't in their lives and they will almost definitely wave you through. They aren't looking to punish regular people and stop them going on holiday. They are looking to stop people smuggling.

It's the other way round. Consent letters are routinely asked for. Birth certs don't prove consent, only blood ties.

WilkinsonM · 30/05/2023 17:26

HicLocusEst · 30/05/2023 17:00

It's the other way round. Consent letters are routinely asked for. Birth certs don't prove consent, only blood ties.

Show quote history

I've travelled with my DS dozens and dozens of times and been asked for the birth certificate almost every time and a letter from his father never. they aren't looking for consent, they are looking for signs of people trafficking. The consent issue only comes into play where there is a court order preventing the child being removed from the jurisdiction. There is no practical way (or will) to police every child being taken out of the country and ensure all parties with PR have given consent. It's a law that is invoked only when it's needed.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 30/05/2023 19:02

WilkinsonM · 30/05/2023 17:26

I've travelled with my DS dozens and dozens of times and been asked for the birth certificate almost every time and a letter from his father never. they aren't looking for consent, they are looking for signs of people trafficking. The consent issue only comes into play where there is a court order preventing the child being removed from the jurisdiction. There is no practical way (or will) to police every child being taken out of the country and ensure all parties with PR have given consent. It's a law that is invoked only when it's needed.

Show quote history

Sometimes they are looking for consent, I have been asked and so have other posters.

HicLocusEst · 30/05/2023 20:05

WilkinsonM · 30/05/2023 17:26

I've travelled with my DS dozens and dozens of times and been asked for the birth certificate almost every time and a letter from his father never. they aren't looking for consent, they are looking for signs of people trafficking. The consent issue only comes into play where there is a court order preventing the child being removed from the jurisdiction. There is no practical way (or will) to police every child being taken out of the country and ensure all parties with PR have given consent. It's a law that is invoked only when it's needed.

Show quote history

Nope. Read the govt link. Consent is needed from anyone with PR. Not only when there is a court order in place.

And no, not all adults travelling with minors are "policed". A sample are.

Yes, it's about trafficking, stopping parental abduction across borders, preventing child marriages and FGM among other things.

ladydiggins · 30/05/2023 20:11

DD is now 18 and has her father's surname. We have travelled internationally a lot over the years together without OH. Far East/Europe. Never been asked to provide a BC and I have never taken one 'just in case' ( and never thought to tbh.)

Mind you - she looks just like me, or so I've been told.