Who and how much to tip (USA)

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

Hi,

I am thinking of going to USA maybe this summer or early next year. Thinking of New York or California.

Of course the USA has a different tipping culture to UK. In the USA, when you go how much do you generally tip, who do you tip?

*bizarre, not Byzantine

Ten percent hasn't been fine for a very long time.

So if the meal was 50 and they got 5 and it is now 100 and they get 10 what is the issue. Why do they need 20?

1 - They are taxed on the expectation that they are getting those 20% tips. They will have to make up the difference between your measly 10% tip and what the IRS says they got when April rolls around. Not cool.

2 - Their own bills have risen in line with inflation. As in the UK, everything has gone up. Would you like to receive half of your expected pay for the job you do?

It shouldn't be for the customer to pay them. Why can't the restaurant pay them a fair wage in the first place?

Well, for starters, read the effing thread.
Why do you want the UK when you go to the US?
They are separate countries with different ways of doing things.

You pay for your food.
You pay for the service.
That is - two separate charges.

Waiters can make a very good living, an annual income that is far more than 'a living wage' from tips.

Why is its so difficult for so many people here to understand that waiting tables is seen as an opportunity in the US, not drudgery?

I would say it’s a minimum of 20% to your server in a restaurant, that’s the basic, most of my US friends tip 30% Porters and bar tenders a few dollars a time. To tip 10% -15% is a massive insult. You may not agree with it, but that’s how it works….don’t like it, go somewhere else.

I have read the thread

I still think if they are not careful, they will lose customers

You're mistaken on both counts.

Quite. The financial inequality between the West and much poorer countries is very sad; however, that is the whole point of a tip: something given voluntarily to somebody (often who doesn't earn very much) who is genuinely pleased (and maybe surprised) to receive it.

The approval of this scenario is quite sickening, actually.
It reeks of white man's burden.

I'm pretty much done with arguing about the rest of it now; but which part of this scenario do you disagree with?

I've made it crystal clear that I most certainly do not approve of the gross inequality between rich and poor countries, so the only other question is whether you agree or disagree with trying to help out a few of the people you encounter when travelling in poor countries or if it would be kinder to keep every penny in your own pocket and then nobody benefits?

Of course, the concept of a tip is by no means exclusive to poorer countries, but the very (original) nature of it is a way of wealthier people giving a small amount of money to poorer people - even within their own country/society; whether out of kindness, thankfulness, pity or to control them.

It was never intended to be a significant amount of money expected/demanded by and given to somebody who is relatively financially equal to yourself, and certainly not to a wealthier person, like these rich waiters we keep hearing about who are coining it in big-time.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't give money to anybody, for any purpose, if they feel the desire to; what I am saying is that the word 'tip' is a complete misnomer here: it is purely an obscured part of the standard price.

30% and 35% tips?!

How long until restaurants go down the road of just charging a token tiny amount for their meals, with the understood obligation that you add on another several hundred dollars for a 'tip and service charge', depending on the state?

Like those books you see advertised on Amazon Marketplace for just a penny, but the 'postage' charge is always suspiciously high.

Just a word of caution regarding these social media posts....

This post by a "New York waitress"? I saw the exact same post, word for word on Twitter except it was a male waiter.

I think some of these are just a wind up meant to stir up some faux outrage.

Even if it were true, I am adamantly against staff complaining about customers on social media. Reflects poorly on the restaurant and obviously is grossly unprofessional. If that was my employee I'd cordially invite them to find another job.

There's nothing like helping out a few of the people you encounter in poorer countries when you can do it to the tune of £1.42. It's a real win-win situation.

The tip you pay in the US is what the waiter is owed for serving you. If you don't like paying the full price for food + service and prefer to nickel and dime the part that you think is negotiable, fill your boots.

But don't leave the restaurant thinking you've struck some kind of a blow for pedantry or advanced the cause of British justice. You've stiffed a waiter and the bussing staff and the hostess, that day and you've reduced his or her real income. If enough customers to that, when tax time comes around (in just under two weeks) that waiter might well end up owing the IRS because waiters' taxes are assessed based on that 20% in tips.

It's not a form of begging. The restaurant offers the waiter the chance to make a living serving the food the kitchens produce.

The multiplicity of ill-informed posts regarding the US from a great number of posters here - all basically denouncing the US for not being Britain, while frequently revealing no knowledge of American reality or context - beg a lot of questions about the worldview of a great many posters. I'm happy to point that out.

The multiplicity of ill-informed posts regarding the US from a great number of posters here - all basically denouncing the US for not being Britain...

No, people are denouncing it for not being every other country on Earth.

Every time you make your argument for waiters being paid completely in tips and thus the massive tip is absolutely necessary, you're arguing against the regularly made point in this thread that 20% should be added to the original bill and then, for exceptional service, a customer can choose to give a tip if they wish.

I sincerely hope that some of you on this thread don’t plan to go to the US any time soon. What a way to live, begrudging a few extra dollars after paying for a nice meal or sticking to grim mall food simply to avoid paying up. Such a mean and small-minded attitude.

No, people are denouncing it for not being every other country on Earth.

She is refusing to accept that because she has a bee in her bonnet about the British @SofiaSoFar. Her posts on the education threads are just as bonkers.

I don't think she realises that to anyone not from the US it feels like we are being ripped off everywhere because of all the hidden costs added to everything you buy. Shop prices add tax at the till (which I am familiar with), the high tips at restaurants (which I am also familier with), but all the other "services" that we neither need nor ask for which simply add £££ to a holiday thus making it less and less afforadble to holiday in the US.

Maybe they don't have a cost of living crisis in the US, and maybe mathanxiety needs to educate herself about just how bad it is over here, or maybe she is a waitress or has DC who earn a living from waiting tables. Her posts are extremely defensive whichever way you look at it, and she refuses to understand that just about everywhere else in the world has a WYSIWYG pricing strategy.

The thing I don't get is why the % keeps going up. You would think that being paid as a % of something else would mean it automatically goes up with inflation, no?

I am going to the US soon, I can't imagine what a server could legally do for me that would make me go up to 35%. Will stick with 20..

Or perhaps people are on a budget?

That's what I was getting at

I spend a lot of time in the US. I've been over twice so far this year and will be there again at least twice more this year, probably doing 7-10 weeks in total in 2023.

I honestly don't care about the cost. I only travel to the US on business and my/our clients pay for every cent of every expense, including tips and any other incidentals, without any receipts (they don't any receive copies of receipts from us, just a total expenses figure given on an invoice each month).

I will happily throw a large American corporate's money around like confetti; it's not mine to worry about.

The point still stands, though: it's extremely confusing, if not a little stressful at times, when trying to make sure not to offend or appear mean in paying for services.

It could all be so much simpler.

Im not sure why its mean and small minded and it isn't a small sum. It is pretty bizarre to pay for someone to do the job they are employed to do. Or are restaurant staff self employed? If not then why don't restaurants in the US pay staff properly. The sums restaurant users are expected to add as a tip are considerable.
A family meal of say $150 dollars would attract a tip of $30. Multiplied over a 2 week holiday, several meals a day that equates to more than my monthly salary. If you are wealthy fine but not for a family on a budget Just to tap an order into an iPad and carry it to the table!

I think it's pretty tone deaf to say that it is mean and small minded to posters who don't have the means to splash the cash. Most people are on a budget when on holiday. To have to factor another 20 - 30% on holiday spends would probably make a difference as to whether they would even consider going the US in the first place TBH.

I think there is an issue exposed here that Visit USA is clearly not suggesting huge tips. Their view for tourists is much more measured and sensible. The charge for the waiting staff at 35% is exceeding the cost of the food and chef payments. This cannot be right snd I’ve never seen 35% suggested anywhere. I went to the USA last year (twice) and never felt 20% or double the Tax wasn’t ok. So do go and do not let some of the rubbish on here put you off.

@Lorrymum

Yes too expensive

Plus all the other taxes I noticed in 2018 like resort tax. I don't like being ripped off

Perhaps their tax system need's overhauling and the server can declare his tips like the self employed do here with some leeway

If it is based on 20% tips perhaps the 35% can balance it out

What a way to live, begrudging a few extra dollars after paying for a nice meal or sticking to grim mall food simply to avoid paying up. Such a mean and small-minded attitude.

This argument always comes up on any thread about tipping - whether in the US, UK or anywhere else. It's not at all that people are too mean to pay the full price; they just want to know the full price, so that they can efficiently and pleasantly pay for an agreed business transaction, without any awkwardness or uncertainty, or otherwise can decide not to request the goods or services in the first place if they can't afford it or deem it not worth it to them - it's a simple matter of honest transparency and having the knowledge that you need in order to be able to budget effectively.

How would you feel if the restaurant owner promptly and efficiently paid the waiting staff on pay day and then stood around awkwardly, waiting for them to 'tip' them back 25% of their wages for doing their job of paying them as agreed? Surely no waiter would be so tight as to begrudge handing over 'a few' extra dollars to such a hardworking boss, would they? Such a mean and small-minded attitude? This is only the other side of the same coin: if one person is socially expected to hand over extra money, over and above what has been agreed, so that somebody else gets to have more, that clearly means that the other person then has less.