Who and how much to tip (USA)

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

Hi,

I am thinking of going to USA maybe this summer or early next year. Thinking of New York or California.

Of course the USA has a different tipping culture to UK. In the USA, when you go how much do you generally tip, who do you tip?

I don’t see it as servility - more an in built assumption that the person receiving the “service” is assumed to have so much money that they can easily pay over and above what they are already paying for the product they are receiving and/or to the establishment they are receiving it from. They must spread their wealth around - a concept which feels particularly odd when they may well be earning less in a job that doesn’t attract tips, and where the acknowledgment of a “job well done” is actually an expectation of the job having been done at all, even if done merely adequately!

And it’s not relaxing trying not to offend everyone all the time.

I think this is the rub: who truly wants every business transaction to be the equivalent of a controlling partner sitting in silence on the sofa, expecting you to guess what you've done to upset them?

I just can't get my head around any system - including the UK in this, in restaurants where tipping is expected - where somebody will sell you goods or services as a business transaction, but leave you to guess/not be sure how much money they're expecting you to pay, whilst not actually giving you the price.

Multiple varying sales taxes in the US sound annoying, but at least that's a legal requirement, collecting a fixed percentage of money that has to be paid, on behalf of a third party. I realise I'm not au fait with US culture, but I really don't see how it's not demeaning for a server or other employee to be left to tell a (maybe unwitting foreign) customer that they 'forgot to tip'.

I think there's an expectation on the part of British people that nobody is really 'nice', that deep down everyone is surly AF and carries a massive chip on their shoulder, and that if you go about your day smiling and being nice to other people you must be simple minded.

No, nobody employed in a hotel runs ahead of a hotel guest and presses an elevator button, and stands there waiting for a tip

And nobody is going to stand in front of a door or an elevator waiting for someone to open it or push the button for them so they can then do the old noblesse oblige bit.

What odd thoughts...
America isn't a different planet.

No, you misunderstand me. I, along with most Brits, am fully aware that you get plenty of nice people, unpleasant people and nonchalant people everywhere in the world. My point was to ask how you can know in all of these US businesses if somebody is being nice because they're a nice person or just because they're trying to charm some money out of you.

Fair enough if employees never do anything in the hope of a tip unless specifically asked to do so (although anecdotes upthread may suggest that some do). If there's a culture where people like to have somebody open doors for them or take their luggage up to the room - and request them to do so - then wonderful, all well and good; although I would be wary about this potentially ending up being yet another 'tax' on disabled people who maybe cannot do these simple (for most people) tasks themselves.

But wait staff in the US make far, far more in tips than they could ever hope to make in an hourly wage. In the example I gave upthread my niece earns between $85 to $125 per hour. Do you really think
she would want to trade those tips in for a "generous" hourly wage of maybe $15 to $20 from her employer?

There was an upscale NY restaurant that tried just that - increased hourly wage with no tipping. The staff resigned.

@mrsbyers If I saw a 20% service charge added on to the restaurant bill I would assume they've factored in the tip and would not feel obligated to add additional (unless the service was exceptional). 🤔

I can't think of any other reason they'd add 20% to the bill.

That’s because the system makes it inevitable people tip silly amounts! Just read this thread. I’m happy to pay for my meal. That involves a member of staff welcoming me, taking my order and explaining the menu to me. On a no choice tasting menu, there’s not even an order. I expect the waiting staff to have knowledge of the food. I expect the chefs to have the greater skill to produce rhe food. I’m not talking of burgers. I’m talking of high end cooking.

At least here, tips are shared. Why waiting staff get so much is ridiculous and are probably replaceable.

@TizerorFizz Tipping culture, particularly as it pertains to restaurants, is just too ingrained here to think that either owners or staff would consider an alternative.

But it has gone too far in some areas. We went to see a movie and I ordered popcorn and a beverage at the concession stand. There on prominent display is a massive tip jar. They handed me an item over the counter...why am I expected to tip?! I just massively overpaid for a bucket small bag of popcorn and now I have to feel obligated to tip? (Being American I did leave a tip because being though "cheap" is too terrifying a prospect😂) but I resented it so much I scarfed down could barely enjoy my popcorn!

But wait staff in the US make far, far more in tips than they could ever hope to make in an hourly wage. In the example I gave upthread my niece earns between $85 to $125 per hour. Do you really think
she would want to trade those tips in for a "generous" hourly wage of maybe $15 to $20 from her employer?

There was an upscale NY restaurant that tried just that - increased hourly wage with no tipping. The staff resigned.

Which is all maybe fair enough - but they need to own it as a top-paying job and not play the victim: making out that they take home so little that their kids will starve if any one person doesn't tip - or 'only' tips 10%.

That’s because the system makes it inevitable people tip silly amounts! Just read this thread. I’m happy to pay for my meal. That involves a member of staff welcoming me, taking my order and explaining the menu to me.

Expecting a tip based on the percentage of (advertised) meal cost also makes no sense to me either. How should you earn a load more for bringing/pouring a very expensive bottle of wine that one table orders than you would for the next table that orders the cheapest?

Is the thinking basically that people should be expected to pay according to their means, rather than according to the goods and level of service that they've received? Are American shops the same as this - with 'standard' (excluding tax) prices on the shelf, but a rich person is expected to pay ten times as much for a loaf of bread as the poor person behind them with an identical loaf? Are people who work in car factories paid far more per hour for their part in making a top-of-the-range model with all the expensive gadgets and more powerful engine than they are for making the basic entry-level spec model of the same car?

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I agree with you about whining on social media when you "only" get a 10% tip. Some customers will over tip, some will under tip and a few might not tip at all. That's the nature of the job. It also doesn't reflect well on the restaurant when the staff is on social media complaining about customers.

They are taxed on estimated income, which the IRS is able to determine.

So yes, if a series of customers stiffs them, they're allowed to whine, because the IRS is going to go after them for what they should be making.

Part of 'owning it' as a top paying job is paying the taxes you owe for a certain tax band.

The anglocentrism is pretty strong there. 'America is so weirdly and determinedly backwards...'?? Or maybe just different?

I'm sure there are servers in the UK who would love to have the chance to make what a waiter makes in a decent restaurant in the average American city. University students on J1 visas can make enough waiting tables to set them up for the year.

Nobody is twirling and dancing. What a really odd thing to say. They're schlepping your food to you, telling you about the daily specials, they've studied the menu earlier and can answer your questions about ingredients, substitutions, etc. If you're not happy with the service, you don't have to tip. But it would need to be terrible service on every level to do that, something like sneezing in your food, losing their false teeth in your salad..

There's some weird form of reverse snobbery being expressed here. Are you not comfortable with people providing services for money?

Restaurants can add a service charge to the bill for parties over a certain number, at their discretion. It reflects having bus staff tied up at a bigger table, perhaps moving tables together, and having one waiter tied up with one large party means he can't serve his usual number of tables. It also reflects a large amount of cooking and plating all at the same time back in the kitchen.

The service charge goes to the restaurant, not the waiter, for tax purposes. The waiter is still expected by the IRS to make the gratuity income and will be expected to pay the estimated income even if the customers have waltzed out without tipping.

@mathanxiety I think the main point you are missing is that tipping for everything is making holidays in the US more and more unaffordable these days.

In the UK and Europe (and other countries I have visited) we are used to expecting to pay prices displayed on menus and goods and services without any hidden charges.

I get your point about how it works for wait staff, but being asked for tips for services that most of us seem as unnecessary makes it a bit of a minefield in terms of tipping etiquette.

And don't get me started on sales tax.

The UK has become largely cashless since covid as most places will only take card payments. I usually ask the wait staff if I can round up my bill to include a tip, and make sure it gets shared among the staff when paying for a meal as I don't carry small denominations of cash on me. Not do most people. £5 notes are a rarity these days.

I presume that the US will never become a cashless society because of this?

I don't know if this has already been covered but surely tipping doesn't contribute to a pension or NI or to taxation?

The question of whether you are expected to tip on top of a service charge in the US doesn't seem to have a totally clear answer despite @mathanxiety's confident assertion

https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/09/20/should-you-tip-on-top-of-a-restaurant-service-charge/

So yes, if a series of customers stiffs them, they're allowed to whine, because the IRS is going to go after them for what they should be making.

Part of 'owning it' as a top paying job is paying the taxes you owe for a certain tax band.

Then that is an issue for which the IRS needs to be challenged. I presume all waiting staff are clamouring to notify the IRS when a celebrity/very wealthy person gives them a huge tip? It can't be that unusual for some people - whether well-off, very satisfied or (I suspect more likely) tourists who don't really understand it but who are frightened of accidentally causing offence - to give considerably more than the expected tip. Do waiting staff run after somebody to tell them that they have overtipped and offer them some money back? I think I can guess on that one.

You keep talking about customers 'stiffing' them, but how can this be in an industry (which I accept isn't designed that way by any one individual worker) that states a price and then expects people - including foreigners - to know that they're expected to pay $X/X% more than the supposed advertised price? Either you're genuinely grateful for extra money that people give you by way of gratitude; or it's part of the price, in which case it should be stated as such.

It's always a gamble when you agree to sell something but understate and don't confirm the price you're wanting for it in advance, in the hope of getting more money overall: many you will win, but some you will lose.

The anglocentrism is pretty strong there. 'America is so weirdly and determinedly backwards...'?? Or maybe just different?

I agree with you that it is very unfair and completely unhelpful to slur an entire nation based on one cultural practice that some foreigners find bewildering; but it works both ways - 'somebody' upthread effectively slurred all Brits by claiming we don't 'do' or understand being nice or kind to each other.

I think what makes it even worse in restaurants - for foreigners, tourists, people who don't understand expectations or aren't great at arithmetic etc. - is that you obviously can't return what you've had if you wouldn't have paid the actual expected price upon being told what it really was.

If I went around a standard store/shop, choosing items according to the prices on the shelves and then was told that I would need to pay 20-25% extra 'undisclosed' addition to the price, I could just leave my trolley/cart there and walk out annoyed. You can't do that once you've already eaten the food you ordered and were served that was offered to you at X price and you now find is actually priced at Y price.

No uncertainty. We were in vegas and there was a bit outside you could also check in at as well as inside so we went to it. He checked us in and then informed us that they expect tips outside. I had no change on me so didn’t tip. And thought it was ridiculous because where does it end?!

If there is a service charge on the bill already, there is no way I would tip

They can take it off then I will give a cash tip

When to tip has always confused me too. For example, if you're staying a few nights in a hotel do you leave your maid/ housekeeping $5 at the end of your stay or is it expected that you leave $1-2 out each day?

If you're ordering multiple drinks at a bar do you tip after each drink or at the end of the night when you settle the tab?

@ronswansonstache $1-2 a day is a bit low! (If you are going to top!) Frankly - I’ve paid for the room to be made up. I’ve not made a mess. I would tip if I had. It’s difficult to tip someone you don’t see. You have no relationship with them.

I don’t see why anyone is expected to keep well paid people even more well paid and fund their college and then be scowled at because the tip wasn’t big enough.

I never tipped the housekeepers. It didn’t even occur to me to tip them. I presumed it was all part of the price I’d paid for the hotel

I leave the housekeeper's tip every day because there will likely be different housekeepers on duty. I also always leave a short note so they know it's a tip and not random cash lying around.

I think what makes it even worse in restaurants - for foreigners, tourists, people who don't understand expectations or aren't great at arithmetic etc. - is that you obviously can't return what you've had if you wouldn't have paid the actual expected price upon being told what it really was.

So you do a bit of research about tipping and other customs before you visit the country. Isn't that normal? And as for arithmetic, doesn't everyone carry a small portable calculator on or near their person at all times these days? And in restaurants, if you can do 10%x2, you are good to go in almost every circumstance.

I'm still grappling with this 20% service charge being tacked on to the bill. We eat in restaurants all the time, on the east coast and in Florida and I've never seen this. If it's not a tip, then what is it for?

I've only seen an additional charge added in two scenarios:

*sometimes there will be a note saying "for parties of 6 or more an18% gratuity will be added" (so clearly a tip, and you'll be told this before you order)

Or

*after covid it was common in NYC to see a note on the menu saying "do to costs associated with covid guidelines we are adding a $xyz charge"

But just a blanket "service charge" tacked on with no explanation? Even this over-tipping-American would have an issue with that!