Wolf Hall discussion continuation thread

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

Continuing the thread from Telly Addicts, just in time for episode 4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/2288038-Damian-Lewis-fans-line-up-for-Wolf-Hall-tonight?msgid=52500336#52500336

Oh no! I'm at that bit in WH, don't say any thing yet Knickerful

If anyone is missing Thomas More, Anton Lesser is in a R3 adaptation of The Master and Margarita on Sunday 10pm. No Tudors, but it does have one beheading (and a talking cat)!

Forgot the link!

I won't! It's weird that we are trying to avoid spoilering history!!

DH & I have just spent a couple of days in Dijon, on the way back from visiting DS & DIL.

We were having dinner one evening & deciding which wine to have & I plumed for one that said it came from "Domaine de Chapuys". Luckily it was lovely & not too expensive & DH was most amused when I told him I'd chosen it because of the WH connection. Obsessed? Me?

As a total wander Dijon is lovely, small, very well managed traffic so loads is pedestrianised & filled with amazing buildings & a stunning art gallery.

And made me realise how little I know of French history!

Talking of spoilering history, I wonder if there were any overseas readers who read Bring Up The Bodies not knowing that Anne Boleyn was going to get the chop.

One thing I loved about writing about the Pilgrimage of Grace is that by and large people don't know much about it so except that it didn't work out, and at one stage it looked like the rebels were going to succeed.

I'm from overseas and I know about this chopping.

Is Wolsey a better person to work for than Henry? There's a bit in BUTB where Cromwell/Cremuel/Crumb () seems to realise that Henry schemes behind his back. (Though of course being king I guess he's free to scheme behind anybody's back ...) Was Wolsey straight with him?

Hello!

I have finally caught up, both with the TV and this thread.

And now I bet you've all fucked off, haven't you?

Anyway. About Jane Seymour and the sleeves - I reckon that's meant to be slightly sexy. Because, at least earlier on and I believe still at this point (though countess will correct me if I'm wrong) you could detach your sleeves from your dress, and women used to give men their sleeves - effectively a fluttery bit of fabric - to wear into tournaments as a favour. I've heard that might be the origin of 'to wear your heart on your sleeve', but I've no idea really.

Oh, good.

I loved the last episode. So good! And so chilling.

Oh yes, brilliant point!

Earlier the whole sleeve laces into the armhole, and it might be that some of them still do, but at this point, the gowns the women are wearing at court have detachable foresleeves, so you can swap them over (along with the forepart of the skirt) and make different outfits.

They're not very fluttery at this point of course - they're massive and often padded - but it might be that they still have the love token resonance even after it would be impractical to actually do that.

Just re watched the last episode and am now rereading the last bit of BUTB. I have stopped the Tracy Borman biog for now as i don't want to "spoiler" the mirror and the light!!!

Ahh, interesting.

And yes, can well believe it'd be the resonance rather than the actual thing - weren't jousts by this point a little bit consciously old-fashioned? I base this thought on a throwaway comment by Caxton in a children's novel meticulous historical research, natch.

I am currently reading a really creepy romance where some men want to take revenge for women being raped, and swear to go and 'finger' the enemy's banner (the battle equivalent of a tournament favour) then ripe/rape (it's a pun) it to pieces, so the sleeve/sexual image thing was in my mind.

My mind is, on reflection, a bit twisted.

The Tudors definitely knew how to work the capsule wardrobe.

Ahh thanks for that Knickerful, you are right it's silly to worry about spoilers, I shouldn't have asked really
I'm going to read theTracy Borman book that you mentioned next.

I loved all the talk of fabrics and their texture that was woven into WH, frequently linked with sexual innuendo, binding Cromwell's mercantile past to his sumptuous future.

I don't think it's sully!

Oh, no, I totally avoided this thread when I was catching up as I didn't want spoilers! And I work more or less on this historical period.

Lovely article about HM

www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/04/hilary-mantel-i-do-think-level-public-debate-debased

That was a really great read.

I love this thread. What do we call it when it ends?

The End of Times.

It'll be a Tudorific Tragedy, Trills.

Can I ask a couple of is this fact or fiction questions?

Did Cromwell have AB's suitors set up and executed because of the play about Wolsey?

was the AB B necklace with the pearls real, didn't see it in WH? may have missed it though.

Somebody mentioned not knowing much about french history, has anyone read Mantel's "A Place of Greater Safety" about the French Revolution?
I started it many years ago and managed to struggle through almost half of the 800+ pages before giving up.
Since, I really enjoyed WH and BUTB and am wondering about trying again with APOGS.
I tried to read it originally as I live in France and thought I ought to know something about it's history.