Wolf Hall discussion continuation thread

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

Continuing the thread from Telly Addicts, just in time for episode 4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/2288038-Damian-Lewis-fans-line-up-for-Wolf-Hall-tonight?msgid=52500336#52500336

My understanding is that executions by sword required the person to be kneeling, so the sword could be swung from side to side.

I think Norris stormed from the room at Anne's comment "You'd look to have me". The documentary (sorry to keep harping on about it!) said it was documented in the charges against Anne that she had said this, preceded by "You look to dead men's shoes", meaning if the King were dead you'd marry me. The thinking of the time was that talking about the King dying (which was obviously inevitable) was akin to plotting his death yourself.

It was Gregory (TC's son) who asked why she kept looking up.

Thanks for the execution info. (Now there's a strange sentence.) I've obviously got my botched beheadings mixed up. Thank goodness it was quick, for Anne at least.

There wasn't any torture from TC in the books. He put Smeaton in the room 'with Christmas' to freak him out. Pretty sure there was nothing physical.

Re the shoes I just thought he was being compassionate. He made a comment earlier about not alarming her & I thought the whole shoes & shouted comment were so it was quick & she didn't know it was happening/wasn't expecting it. A bit easier maybe then knowing the chap has the sword in his hand & is behind you & it will happen any moment.

Shoes taken off for stealth, so he couldn't be heard/

I loved the detail of the executioner wearing fancy sleeves so she wouldn't be able to pick him out from the officials.

I noticed that with French hoods too - French hood wearing Anne is surrounded by gable hood wearers!

It's interesting though, in that thing lately where facial recognition software is being used on portraits of her, she's wearing a gable in both the known one on a medal that they used as a reference and the one they think matches. here

My favourite Anne portrait is the miniature attributed to John Hoskins see this blog post - it can't be from life because Hoskins was later but it actually looks like a real person who was interesting enough for the king to fall in love with her.
Also she has (her uncle) Norfolk's chin.

I agree with hackmum- this final episode was astounding. The actors faces told the story.

Someone on here said that BBC had tentative plans for The Mirror and the Light? I hope so.

Claire Foy was brilliant in this last episode- her portrayal of Anne at the execution block was mesmerising.

A truly chilling end to a fabulous series. I could do with being snowed in for a couple of days, alone, so I could rewatch the whole six episodes back to back.

I have always felt a deep sadness on the three occasions I have been to the Tower and seen the spot where Ann was beheaded.

And as several people have said upthread, if only they had known the Monarch the ginger baby would become, how different things would have been.

The cupboard has some Christmas decorations in, and the peacock wings in that Cromwell's daughters wore.
I found that bit in the book weird tbh - I didn't really get it. I totally bought the way Cromwell didn't need to use torture on Mark because he dug his own grave so nicely through boasting, but the cupboard stuff was a bit wtf.

The wind and rain blowing while she approached the scaffold was perfection. It made the whole scene seem recognisable to me, very real. I liked how the focus was not on Anne's last words, particularly, but on the machinations of the execution itself. It made the killing somehow routine, which, when you consider that her co-accused had already died, it was.
Chilling and a brilliant set up for the next book/screen adaptation. Can't wait to see how Hilary deals with the downfall of TC.

been lurking - i enjoyed this blog post about TC's spin doctor skills:
historytoday.com/marc-morris/king-john-still-englands-greatest-villain

Did Henry have mental health problems as well as the gout etc as he got older?
Or was he simply corrupted by absolute power?
I think he was played very effectively, especially in the scene Howcanitbe mentions above.
Anne is prattling about the new bonnet for the baby and he has clearly already decided about her death and the baby is of no importance to him at all, simply because she is a girl. Really chilling.
I wonder how Elizabeth felt about her father (and his ordering of her mothers death) as an adult?

I think the implication is the jousting accident that had left him unconscious had led to more erratic behaviour.

Daughter Elizabeth never did get married did she!

Is it 'true' that Henry Viii spared Anne an agonising death of Burning at the Stake and instead permitted a 'swift' beheading?

Elizabeth publicly venerated her father and never really mentioned her mother. She liked to use the legend of H8 (his publicity was excellent despite his actions) to substantiate herself. "I have the body of a weak and feeble woman..." etc. At the time AB was thought by the masses to be beyond the pale so it was not good politically to be seen to be too interested or worse, resemble Anne.
Privately, I'm not so sure. She kept her mothers relatives close. She was also very very clever. She must have known that the whole thing stank, but addressing it would have been impossible. I always thought her whole Virgin Queen persona was a very clever way of remaining in total control, while showing she was in every way different from the public perception of her mother.

I was out last night (went to see Theory of Everything, which was good) and have just watched this on Iplayer. It was so chilling and moving, having had little sympathy for Anne throughout i went to feeling so terribly sorry for her. Brilliant acting and the visual impact was huge. God Henry was a monster wasn't he?

Howcan - yes, I thought I remembered he had had syphilis which I understand can be devastating mentally as well as physically if untreated (treated with what the Tudors had available, which must amount to the same thing).

I hadn't thought that the Injury from the Joust might have had behavioural effects too?

How historically accurate is Mantel?

Is Bring up the Bodies as good?

Yy to Eliazabeth realising that her power lay in her being a Virgin Queen.

Yes, the standard punishment for treason for women was burning.

There's discussion about whether Henry went bad as a result of the jousting accident (and syphilis has been mentioned but I think that's less believed now?) or whether he'd always been ruthless.
After all, he kicked off his reign by beheading his father's advisors Empson and Dudley, he executed the Duke of Buckingham (1521) and even Thomas More came in 1535, before the accident.
There's a terrific book by Susannah Lipscomb called 1536 which discusses it.

IIRC the main argument against him having syphilis is that there's no record of him having any of the standard syphilis treatments of the time, but I might be wrong so don't quote me on that.

Ah, thanks Countess - this is clearly your area - I've been lurking through the thread and you've contributed loads of very interesting stuff!

Ive just watched teh last 20 mins or so again- Claire Foy has captivated me as AB. The look on her face as she realises she wont be burned alive- its a glance towards TC that just exudes acting genius.
As already stated- she managed to portray a very unlikeable character up until this last episode- I felt gut-wrenched for her last night.