Henry VIII, eh? What a bastard.

[TunipTheVegemal]

I just feel there should be an ongoing thread on what a vile piece of work Henry VIII was where people can leave their opinions on the complete and utter appallingness of Henry VIII.

Of course, this being Mumsnet someone will probably come along and say IABVU and he was actually very nice.

(What sparked this off, btw, was me discovering that the Pilgrimage of Grace marched past where my house is, having mustered troops a mile away. Now every time I have to go into the garden at night I will imagine rotting corpses swinging from the trees - he had some of the rebels hanged in their own back gardens and some women got into trouble for cutting down their husband's bodies when they were supposed to leave them there to rot as a warning. What a bastard.)

I think KPs first husband was old

In his 40's I think.

Oh. Ok. DP is 40. Definitely not past it!

Didn't think KP would have had sexual relationship s him, was more a nursemaid

Why could Henry have sex with KH and not with KP, not that much age difference in him?

He was mire or less on his deathbed by the time KP on the scene

Maybe he felt emasculated by KH's affairs (if they were true) or maybe his health had just deteriorated. Although actually there's no reason why he couldn't have had sex with KP - he only got properly ill very near the end of his life, and led the army into France in 1544 or so.

(he died in 1547)

Not much about age, it was about his health.

I wonder if the first three wives dying crushed him along with the accident and everything caught up with him, breaking with Church, killing his former religious mates etc. He couldn't get it up with AoC, KH was a young sexy thing that got him going again and he was crushed again after that fiasco that he couldn't get it up again with KP.

Elizabeth was brought up not knowing whom to trust and having to be very canny politically to survive. She'd probably seen enough bloodshed to last a lifetime and seem the country torn apart over religion. Even after she was persuaded to sign Mary Q of S death warrent. She had a meltdown after the deed was done, blaming her advisor for forcing her hand.

I do love that painting of Elizabeth as a young girl. She seems so watchful, even at that age.

The doctor who attended Princess Charlottes delivery killed himself. All v sad.

They could exhume his bones. They would show damage from syphilis if he had it.

Seems to me that all the rulers from back then were nutters. Absolute power and all that.

Korma, Royal Deaths and Diseases. A documentary I was just watching.

TunipTheVegemal

thinks there is lots of us weirdos! I'm nodding my head as I read because I 'know' most of this stuff but just can't spout it back when required. Which is not very useful at the best of times!

and yeah, THANKS for all the book recommendations, not. Bloody postman almost crippled himself with my Amazon parcels this morning. He was not impressed

Kiwi.

I am in awe of the detail some people know.

One of the more interesting might-have-beens is if Mary Tudor (CofA's daughter, not Henry VIII's sister) had married James V of Scotland, her first cousin. This was mooted at the point in life where Henry VIII was looking for a solution to lack of a male heir which did not involve a new wife.

The thought being, that as Ferdinand and Isabella united the crowns of Aragon and Castile, James and Mary together would have united the crowns of England and Scotland and their heir would have inherited both.

Of course, then there would have been no Elizabeth I, and no Mary Queen of Scots.

How old was Queen Mary when she wed Phillip?

If she had married James she might still have not had DCs so it would have gone to Elizabeth, then who?

Does no-one still know about the relationship between the 2 Marys?

37?

Wasn't Mary queen of scots still in France and married when Mary Tudor was on the throne? They never met. Mary Tudor died long before Mary queen of scots ran into her woes which were entirely her fault. You execute uppity lords who abduct and rape you, not marry them

If she had married James she would have been an awful lot younger. This was mooted in the late 1520s I think, so considerably younger than she was on her eventual marriage after she became queen in 1553.

If she had not have had children, James V was still the senior Tudor male heir, as he was Henry VIII's nephew, so probably would still have had the best claim, particularly if in anticipation of marriage to Mary Tudor he had been placed into the care of the English Court as his uncle's heir. Who would have come after him if he had no children is more difficult, but probably Mary & Suffolk's daughter Frances.

Elizabeth wouldnt have been on the scene as a contender, as Henry would not have divorced CofA, and so while she may have arrived, she would have had the same status as Henry Fitzroy.

But the Scots were fiercely mistrustful of the English, so they were probably less than keen, and then Henry fell for Anne so a solution involving his daughter (and eventual grandson) became less attractive than getting a new wife and a son.

If Elizabeth 1 was so smart how come she didn't ensure the succession by marrying and having children. Never could figure that out.

Because in those times having children = being married, and her parents marriage and mothers death had scarred her enough.

-She might have not been able to have children, and had a good idea that this was the case, eg irregular periods
-Marrying someone from England could go horribly wrong because of jealousy between the nobles, and marrying someone from abroad could go wrong as she'd just seen happen with Mary & Philip. So she was stuck.