Arrrrgh! How to support DC in uni choice

[SinuousTendrils]

So DD has finally decided on PPE for her course having pivoted between literature and maths all year.
At last year's open days she loved Warwick's philosophy and maths courses but was not keen on the campus or the idea of living near Coventry.
She loved Durham, loved the PPE course but is concerned about the number of public school types (after ruling out oxbridge for this reason) It is also far away from home.
She felt right at home in Sheffield but isn't sure if the course is as good....
She has no idea what to do but wishes she could take the Warwick course in Sheffield.
Dors anyone have knowledge about the PPE course at Sheff? Warwick was a particular draw as they teach continental.
Thank you.

Yes…Coventry is “a dump” and there was a “visceral dislike” for Leamington Spa, despite your DD preferring the course itself at Warwick. I stand by my comment in this quote history…it’s a shame your DD would have to tolerate such unsavoury people to do the course she prefers.

Always pick for the course. Always. Anywhere becomes home for three/four years (seriously, anywhere!) but the actual course and her passion for the subject has potentially life long advantages.

But if she’s an A* student, I’d encourage her to revisit all options, especially post results after a year out. Oxbridge is for the better for having a diverse intake.

Quite. Also hates middle class towns like Leamington Spa. 🤦‍♀️

“Dump” and “visceral dislike” (exact quotes) don’t exactly ooze respect.

The PPE course at York is famously good - it is taught in a proper interdisciplinary way - not just random courses from each department.

One thing I would say is that she is being silly not to at least apply to Oxford. Not only might she find she likes one or two of the colleges (try Wadham for example, which has the highest proportion of state school educated undergrads) but the fact that it is one of her choices means that she will be considered more desirable by other unis. They WANT the students who are capable of getting into Oxford but chose not to go. Maybe things have changed but that is what happened to me - many years ago! I got a place at Oxford but all the other unis I applied to gave me much lower offers to entice me to go there instead. They did so before I got an offer from Oxford, and a lecturer at York I later became friends with told me they would make quicker, lower offers to students they thought would likely to get an Oxbridge offer.

I chose York over Oxford (I loved it, it has done my career no harm and I have no regrets though not sure in the current job market I would have made the same decision) and my A levels were much less stressful because I would have had to hugely mess up to miss the low offers I was made.

She doesn't hate anyone
She thought Leamington soulless and small
She wants somewhere with more to offer than Coventry
Grow up.

You are so rude about different places.

Grow up.

Thank you, what great advice. We're going for a trip to York. I've a feeling it will be a good contender for dd.
I haven't heard that about the applications, very clever. Will talk to DD tonight.
One of the main reasons she didn't consider oxbridge is she felt she wasn't passionate about her subject. She was flipping between literature, philosophy and maths for months and then i suggested PPE. Which is probably one of the most competitive courses at oxford and requires bag loads of passion to get on to!

What prejudice and such immature world view from someone wanting to study PPE. I work in Law and went to UCL (from a state school abroad). I couldn't tell you where anyone I met went to school and it has literally never come up in conversation.

I'm not convinced that judging kids by the education system that their parents put them in is a great thing, whether it is private school or state schools doing the judging.

It's just having a preference about where you want to spend 3/4 years and £60+ grand
I don't see what's rude about not liking the atmosphere/architecture/feel of a place you're deciding to study/live in. Nobody's feelings are being hurt. It would be so much more difficult to decide if we all thought everywhere was magnificent. I think you're just being aversorial for the sake of it.

I will also add that my course at York was absolutely full of private school pupils, there were almost no state educated pupils. I still had an amazing time there. But if you don't want to mix with anyone from a private school you might want to avoid it.

Edited to add that while the city is lovely the campus is rather run dilapidated and uninspiring architecture wise. I think all the courses are now run on campus.

I can't speak to the rest but I went to Durham, from a state school background, very working class both parents left school at 14 and had manual labour type jobs. Yes it's full of public school types but I had an absolutely wonderful time and made lifelong friends. People are just people, you don't cost the family you are born into. I also found it very good for my confidence that I could hold my own or outperform people with very expensive educations and every opportunity at their finger tips.

I wonder if that is still true about applications wrt Oxford and other unis as noted by @StrawberryEater though. When was that?

UCAS forms don't even allow the student to list an order (as they did in my day – heaven forbid you put Bristol anywhere but first or second to Oxford/Cambs!) so I am not sure other unis can see where else you applied? Others may know though. DD applied for two courses in different dept at the same uni and our understanding was that the uni depts did not know that. Not sure now where we got that intel from though :) (it was eight years ago)

Yes, it’s a big, expensive decision to make.

However, using terms like
“visceral dislike”
”bought into their tribe”
”grubby city”
”morally repugnant”
“dump”
“soulless and small”
to describe people and places is exceptionally rude and disrespectful.

We had lists with pros and cons, finances etc.
My dd definitely knew she wanted a year abroad narrowed down to a couple of countries and we did every year abroad talk at open days. Others wouldn’t care about that. She’s secured her place abroad and it’s at number 1 university for her subject in a country top of her list. It’s a uni that was mentioned at one of the first London open days we went to so feels like come full circle.
There’s certain unis some people expect them to go to. If they are ploughing their own path then people will make comments.
Certain unis are in favour on mumsnet, see the new starter threads.
I encouraged mine to take time at open and offer days and think could she see herself here for 3 or 4 years.

I agree with this. We live in quite a deprived area of the country and my (young) children attend private school. Several worthy students didn’t get offers at Oxbridge, however when a level results came out, my social media and local news was full of students from local colleges and state sixth forms, all on their way to Oxbridge.

Being bullied for a northern accent at Durham is wild. 🤣

Im northern, dh is from Yorkshire. We live in the north, Dd was born here but somehow has the poshest accent known to man unlike me and dh who sound like we were born down pit.

She gets teased a bit in Manchester for her accent and accused of being a southerner quite often. I think you do have to take these things in the chin a bit.

There was more to it but its hard hitting when it’s a girl from your school. It wasn’t just that though it was various reasons it wasn’t her cup of tea. I agreed with her. Plenty of other choices.
My dd has ended up with a very motley collection of friends inc privately educated, international, local commuters etc.
But I don’t see what’s wrong with saying visceral reaction.
That’s exactly reaction my dd had to Lancaster. Reasons - hated campus style, hated architecture, could see sheep - I can see sheep at home, too near home, subject talk was dire, wanted big city etc. Others love it and it’s a great fit for them. She knew it wasn’t for her. I supported that.

Dd just didn't want to apply
Not a great deal i could do about it
If I'd encouraged her more strongly, someone on here would have told me not to be so involved.

That is true, it’s better it comes from DD other wise it will always be your fault 😂

I haven't at any point said 'all people who are privately educated are horrible people'

No, just “morally repugnant”. The existence of private schools isn’t the reason that we don’t have excellent schools for all. Underinvestment in education by successive governments is.

You have passed your inverted snobbery onto your child, which is a shame. I have raised my children to never pass judgement on anyone and to take everyone as they find them. They have good friends from every walk of life including high rise council estates and landed gentry.

For what it’s worth, I went to Bristol from a large, shit comprehensive. Everyone in my halls was privately educated. I made the best friends and had a ball. It didn’t occur to me that I couldn’t be friends with people who were richer than me!

And what is your DD going to do when she leaves uni with her PPE degree?? I work in finance and nearly everyone I work with is privately educated. How on earth will she manage to work alongside such people?? You are setting her up to feel like an outsider her entire life.

You make an excellent point to check. My experience was a very long time ago and it is possible universities no longer know which other universities a student has applied to. I know they definitely did in my day; I was even asked about my other choices in my Oxford interview.

I think you’ve had some fair challenges re stereotyping here op. You can edit them out and cherry pick to validate your/your daughters thinking but hopefully you will see the value in some perhaps uncomfortable truths.

Neither of my parents went to uni, dad joined the military at 17, mum was a nurse. I got in to Cambridge via being put in boarding school when they were posted abroad - would I be a public school toff to be avoided in your family’s books? Even though this was the 90s there was huge social variety though of course it would be easy to fixate on the rich elite - I didn’t and thus didn’t really come across them.

Approach and mindset is key wherever you are looking. Good luck

Being offended by someone's reaction to a place is a bit weird imo. We don't all have to like everything, that's why we have menus.
DD has over developed empathy and feels physical sensations when other people are hurt, and bodily reactions to places. She didn't like Leamington, maybe my use of language was a bit much for you.
The city I live near is objectively a dump, as are many other contemporary urban centres. Most have redeeming features also.
As a concept, having a society where people with more wealth get a 'better' education (broadly speaking, I have noted the exceptions mentioned) and therefore improved life prospects (generally) seems like a difficult moral argument to defend to me.
FWIW, at DDs 2 year check, i was advised to send her to private school as she was deemed so intellectually advanced. I considered it for a nanosecond but realised that even if we could have afforded it/secured a scholarship, it would still have been unfair. (And my parents would have disowned me) I do wonder how thus decision might have impacted on dd, not least because of the perceived/metaphorical closed doors that might be on the horizon. But I still think it would have been unfair.