Arrrrgh! How to support DC in uni choice

[SinuousTendrils]

So DD has finally decided on PPE for her course having pivoted between literature and maths all year.
At last year's open days she loved Warwick's philosophy and maths courses but was not keen on the campus or the idea of living near Coventry.
She loved Durham, loved the PPE course but is concerned about the number of public school types (after ruling out oxbridge for this reason) It is also far away from home.
She felt right at home in Sheffield but isn't sure if the course is as good....
She has no idea what to do but wishes she could take the Warwick course in Sheffield.
Dors anyone have knowledge about the PPE course at Sheff? Warwick was a particular draw as they teach continental.
Thank you.

Amazing. You must be v. proud.
I hoped dd would apply but it wasn't for her.

Thank you. I will pass on this sage advice.

I’d suggest going and visiting both places again on a normal day, sometimes a first impression can be bad luck in a combination of different things, and seeing them again might help.

I think she needs to consider her judgements about 'public school types' who are just normal people. Being able to get on with lots of different people is a good thing at uni. Judging people on where they went to school is not a good thing - it's not the best way to decide where to go either. She may want to look at why she has this prejudice (it might be worth asking her how she would feel about a public school pupil making assumptions about those that didn't go and whether it is any better if the judgement is the other way round). I didn't attend public school and it's not a choice I would make for my children but I know a couple of people who did attend public school and they are lovely people.

As it goes @SinuousTendrils it’s my view that more and more uni students will have gone to private school simply because leaving home to go to uni is becoming (unfortunately) something that only the wealthier end of society can afford – and those are the families who are likely to send their DC to private school. Accommodation fees in student houses and halls are often over the max loan amount.

I suspect that the eye-watering (for many of us) amount needed to support a student through uni is a lot less than those families have been paying so seems acceptable? Tbf private school was not an option for us so I may be way wrong here. And I am sure that there are lots of families for whom it is a stretch and they greet the end of fees with great relief.

My DS was at Loughborough which is hardly a uni with a posh reputation, but a lot of the people he met were privately educated. Maybe that’s the people he mixed with, through his course and his sport, but that’s what he found. He didn’t find it an issue at all btw.

I agree with others that it is a shame to dismiss a uni on the grounds of private school poshos. Though a strong dislike for the campus at Warwick and the town or city (a grubby city tho? I mean Sheffield is hardly plate-glass cleanliness at every turn) you are likely to live in is a pretty good reason not to go somewhere. DD had a similar reaction to one city we visited.

Where else did she like? With those PGs she could go anywhere. How about Leeds/Manchester?

Is it prejudice, though, when you can tell you are going to feel like a fish out of water? I'm sure the vast majority of Durham students are lovely (aside from the notorious incident of public schoolboys competing to sleep with the 'poorest' woman - ugh), but it's a bit like being the scholarship kid at a prestigious public school. You know you can hold your own academically but you can't afford the ski trips, the outfits or the party lifestyle. Rents in Durham may be beyond the budget too. I don't think it displays prejudice to put aside ideas of Oxbridge or Durham on the grounds that you would rather study with people from more normal backgrounds, with whom you are likely to have more in common.

Hopefully the open days were when the university students were actually on campus for both Durham and Warwick. It changes the feel completely when the students are not there.

One of my Dc went to Durham, they wanted a small city and got it. They also have a Northern accent and attended state schools all the way through. Just because someone attended public school doesn't mean they are arseholes. You can be state educated and a complete arsehole. They had a great time at Durham and never felt out of place. They socialised with people from all backgrounds including public school educated and international students from all over the world.

Another of my Dc went to Warwick. They lived in private halls of residence just off the campus so no commuting in from Coventry or Lem. They are not a big nightlife/clubbing type person. They chose the best course there was for their subject and Warwick was that course.

All of my Dc attended both open days at the universities they were interested in but also visited at other times, not just being toured round en masse. I would also be worried that your DD has very fixed ideas of the people attending the universities she has discounted.

@Biscuitsneeded Durham rents are like everywhere else, location. You can pay more for a shared 6 bed house in the "best" location of Viaduct than in private halls of residence with en-suites. You can also live a 40 minute walk away and pay an incredibly cheap price as my Dc's friends did. If you want to see high rents for students then Bristol and Exeter come to mind. I understand what you are saying but not everyone going to university has plenty of money. It isn't one child on a scholarship it is huge numbers out of the thousands.

Well Cambridge is only 28% public school kids and Oxford 31% so not quite as high as 40%.

even Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham hover around the 20% mark so not that much different.

A relative of mine is at Cambridge and at a college which has one of the highest percentage of ex public school students. He’s ex state school and has settled in well. Made friends with a mix of ex state and public school students.

Id honestly think the course content and teaching is more important than perceived ideas of future cohort. I agree i wouldn’t want to live in Coventry for three years. 😀. Guess at least it’s not permanent, you’d make friends, have a good time, etc whatever the surroundings.

She’s got 5 choices on UCAS. So she can put Warwick (unless she’s confident she’d be unhappy there, in which case don’t put it down), Sheffield, Durham and two more and decide much later on. Offer holder days are useful here. I wouldn’t get stressed about your final choice now before you’re even holding offers.

What is wrong with public school types? In PPE there will naturally be a lot of them as its a feeder degree... Shame to limit her own opportunity based on perceived class. Also, networking... if you can't beat them... join them...

I can sympathise OP as a few years ago my DS was in a similar kind of position when got an offer from what is without doubt the best known University for his intended course at below their standard offer. Everyone told him he'd won a real golden ticket and assumed he'd take it, but he had a strong preference for somewhere else. Unlike your DD there were also a few things about the course he wasn't too keen on, but like her,the main reason was that he didn't warm to the location and just couldn't see himself living there for 3 or 4 years. His preferred choice was also good University with a well regarded course so he wasn't making a "poor' choice, but was definitely turning down what would generally be considered the most prestigious option open to him. I have to admit that I had some misgivings but ultimately it's him that has to live with his decision and 4 years is a long time to be somewhere that you're not happy. Obviously the proof of the pudding is in the eating and he's still got to graduate and get a job, but so far he is absolutely thriving, both academically and socially, so it looks like he did make the right decision for him.
Obviously the course is very important but I don't think it is unreasonable to give a fair amount of weight to the environment. Some places do suit some students much better than others. I actually suspect most students would do ok at a variety of Universities if the course is right and they go with a positive attitude so there probably isn't a "wrong" choice in situations like this. But I also think that a happy student is more likely to be a successful student and I don't think I would lean on anyone to pick somewhere that they really didn't warm to unless there was a significant difference in the quality of the courses/employment prospects. That said, I made my DS visit his options more than once, to be sure he'd really thought everything through, including going to his preferred choice on a normal working day in really miserable weather before he made his final decision, to make sure he wasn't over influenced by an impressive open day.

Indeed. She isn't stupid. She has spoken alot about inequality and finds private education as a concept morally repugnant.
Not the fault of the offspring of course and perhaps idealism has no place here.
However, i beg to differ from my experience, both at uni and in later life. I have known lots of people who have been privately educated and although they have, without exception I think, been nice people, I didn't enjoy the feeling I experienced of being lesser. Maybe a self projection, but there nonetheless. I don't think it's unreasonable for dd to consider this in her selection process.. but @clary i think your take might be accurate so will talk to dd about that too. She is more than able to interact with people from every walk of life, and most importantly, takes no sh*t from anyone, rich or poor!

I know what you mean about Warwick, I get that it’s a great uni but I went there for a week residential conference when I was doing my PhD and really hated it - the campus is lovely but it just felt isolated to me, campus living really suits some people but it wouldn’t have been for me.
Don’t really know much about Sheffield but DH went to Durham to do his masters and it’s really not all public school types. DH is from an ordinary state school background and there are people from all backgrounds there. So if she liked the place I wouldn’t be put off by thinking it will just be posh types!

She is going to university, not you. She can put her big girl pants on and make the decision herself. If you interfere it won't be her choice.

My daughter turned down Oxford & Durham for Newcastle. Gut feeling. Had the best time. As an ex-public school student she made lots of friends from - the horror - state schools and house shared for two years with ex-state schools pupils. To write off a whole institution on that basis is odd - yes some privately educated pupils are up their own arses but so are some state school pupils. You’ll get entitled people from all walks of life at whatever uni you go to

Anyway, DD graduated, got a highly competitive graduate job and is now a high flyer. Her decision to opt for a ‘less’ prestigious uni (or rather a very non prestigious uni) has not affected her career

Unless the course is really not to her liking, then she’d be best going with her gut feeling

Finding all private education ‘morally repugnant’ seems a little extreme to me, but obviously you and your DD have the right to feel how you wish on such matters.

I’d just like to say though that there are many reasons for attending a private school, many of which are very unlike the famous public schools. Not all private school (or public school) students come from enormous wealth or unending privilege. Your DD just might find her tribe amongst students at Durham who have the same passions as her, regardless of their schooling. Good luck with whatever she decides.

From a Sheffield point of view, accommodation is plentiful and therefore cheaper. Much more choice and money ledt to actually live rather than spending £10k + on accommodation for example. I believe Durham cam be really hard and expensive for example to get 2nd/3rd year accommodation for example

My DS is as laid back as they come but he took a visceral dislike to Bristol when he visited. Said he absolutely could never live there.

Ah, we see where her unfortunate biases come from here. Some of my foster children were 'bought into' the private system after their mother died, and are as far from posh as you can imagine and my own biological children, who I have to say (but I would of course) are lovely boys and both have/are having a great time at different unis with friends from all backgrounds including location, country race and school system. I think it is very sad that she is a clever, hard working girl who is limiting her options due to outdated prejudice, very sad. Perhaps its not too late to try and undo some of that bias.

I can’t comment on the course, but dd2 just graduated from Sheffield, and has been determined to stay there. She’s really loved the city, the surrounding countryside and the people. She’s very fortunate that’s she’s found a decent job there so she’s been able to make the move, as so many of her friends have had to go home. I have to say, whenever I visit I can see why she loves the place so
much.

@SinuousTendrils DD went to Sheffield and did a combined sciences degree. Had to spend the first week of every semester sorting out timetable clashes.

Also found that being on not quite one course or another meant that she didnt really gel with her coursemates.

Loved Sheffield though and still lives there now.

Has she looked at Birmingham? Requirements for PPE with at least a 7 in GCSE Maths.

Although there is always the possibility of Selly Oak being a bit too Coventry and Edgbaston / Harborne a bit too Leamington Spa, for post-first year accommodation, I suppose.

DS1 and DD both went to Birmingham (Biochemistry and IR with French respectively) and both, having moved away for a while, have settled back in the city. However, I'm obviously not the only person to have the thought expressed on a board in the Museum and Art Gallery...

Imagine if someone from a public school said this about swerving state school pupils!
Or do you just presume it’s acceptable to say because it’s the other way around??

Coventry is grim. All of it. I lived and worked there for 5 years and DH for 25! The only nice bits are Warwickshire and not Coventry!

Has she looked at Lancaster?