DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

The the only valid reason that matters is that she has thought about it and decided it’s not for her. You have to respect that.

Can she not compromise and go for a tour?

My ex from years ago went to Cambridge and he and his friends weren't the serious studious type at all, so it's silly to write it off by tarring everyone with the same brush.

Valid reasons would be not liking the course, the environment or the short-term lengths.

I had the chance and didn’t as I didn’t feel comfortable / too many rich posh kids

i ended up working with loads of Cambridge grads so

I would feel happier for your DD is she was focusing on course content rather than social

What does your DD see herself doing after Uni? Will she write books? Be an academic?
How strong is her interests in other subjects.
I think I would encourage my DC to go to a place with a history of writers or translators.
Have the northern colleges you mention produced many great authors or academics?
Oxford of course oozes literature from every stone and brick. Other peeps mention get a First from somewhere then a Masters from Oxford and become a Fellow and enjoy.
Pipe smoking and hairy tweed suits are not compulsory these days.

Matric is in the Sheldonian.

There’s certainly some partying at Oxbridge, but not nearly as much as there used to be, and neither city is well endowed with exciting clubs, to put it mildly.

The mix of students is much less independent-school led than even fifteen years ago, and there’s no reason that she wouldn’t find similar people she likes. However, it’s true that at the moment many of the kids are quite studious — I went thirty years ago and there was a fair bit of hedonism; and fifteen or twenty years ago the culture was very much party-driven, but much less so now. In fact, across both universities bar takings, drinking societies and drink-related bad behaviour generally have collapsed — you just don’t see the amount of “bops”, societies, and hedonistic partying after exams that you used to. A lot of my students (by no means all though) are vegan, teetotal, and into quiet activities like crafting and poetry clubs! (It’s quite sweet, but I do sometimes think they need to blow off steam a bit.)

This really does vary from college to college, but overall I really would say that the culture at the moment is much less club and party led than I’ve ever known it.

My thoughts too.
Sadly, life is not constant partying :)

Agree

We went to an information evening at DS school, when he was in the 6th form about university choices. A former pupil came to talk about Cambridge. He said, if you want a nightclub life, Cambridge is not for you. I took DS to an open day at Cambridge. He said:

”I am not going to that dump with old buildings!”

He went to a Northern red brick RG university in a city , where he had a great time in the nightclubs. He got a first and was asked to stay on at the university as an academic. He’d seen post grad friends trailing around the country on short term contracts; so he went into our profession. He’s earning 6 figures, and is always rated as technically very strong, performing above expectations. I don’t see how he would have done any better with a degree from Oxbridge!

OP - don’t try to force DD to conform to your aspirations! You had your time, this is her’s.

@catinateacupNone of that sounds of interest to DD. My DDs would have run a mile too!

My son feels exactly the same. I’m trying not to get too involved

we went to have a look at the Open Day and he really didn’t like the old colleges (Balliol etc) but did quite like some of the more Victorian ones. He still thinks he’d rather live in Manchester though.

She has perfectly valid reasons and having studied at one of the unis she has mentioned, she'll have the time of her life. From your description of her, I think she'll be miserable in Oxbridge (know a few people who went).

An English Lit degree from Oxford vs an English Lit degree from Leeds will make no tangible difference to her life chances / job prospects.

Postgrad at Oxbridge is also a great option, if she wanted that.

Uni can be as much about picking a place you want to live in for three years as it is academic concerns.

I didn't personally vibe with Cambridge due to there being fewer gigs there, the expectation that you stay in college for three years rather than getting a student house and living independently, and the heavier intake from the private/public school sector that would have made me feel an outlier from the start. (My friend who did their undergrad at Lancaster and then his MA/PhD at Cambridge found the latter extremely difficult.). Plus it's very difficult there to work during term-time, which I was absolutely dependent on in order to eat, and would be even more vital for students now.

That's pretty standard for a UG degree.

I would encourage her to make her own mind up by going to open days and not be put off by anyone else at her current school or perceptions without having seen for herself.

I will also say that, based on my experience of people I met at my RG uni and especially those who came to do postgrad after Oxbridge, a dating pool consisting predominantly of men who have been through single-sex education is really not a good thing. (If your DD is gay, though, she will be meeting a lot of confident and fabulous women.)

The Bullingdon Club is not everyone’s idea of 'fun'.

The OP’s daughter is dreaming of big northern city universities with buzzing nightlife - Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. Call it a hunch, but the Bullingdon Club might not be the vibe she has in mind.

"northern colleges"

lol

So the daughter is choosing the uni she wants to go to based on where she can party the most?

What's wrong with that? It's her life and she's in the prime of it. Maybe that will be a decision she regrets later for whatever reason, but she wants to enjoy being young and learn how to be an adult, and perhaps the more structured/college-based social life setup of Oxbridge doesn't fit her vision of that?

"Party schools" have very much been a thing in the US for decades.

There are plenty of students at Oxbridge who enjoy the nightlife. The vibe also varies a lot depending on what college you pick.

Having said that, it is incredibly hard work. You have to really want to do it. I enjoyed my Masters at a northern uni more. I do know people who rejected Oxbridge after being given an offer! I don't think they regret it.

That’s perfectly fair, I think! Ironically, I think the trend towards admitting many fewer independent school pupils has meant that this has accelerated the decline of partying. It used to be mainly the independent school kids who arrived with oodles of money looking to join drinking societies to have a good time. And this was very much in the heyday of the late 2000s boom when they definitely did work hard and party hard. Most of my current students now simply can’t afford to do that — they are more concerned about “wellbeing” activities and working towards career goals. They do all seem to take the workload pretty seriously, too.

The course style also isn’t for everyone — and one of the main things that makes a difference between Oxbridge and a good Russell Group uni is that both Ox and Cam are still predominantly final-exam-driven. For a subject like English, there are opportunities to submit some papers as dissertation topics; but the courses overall are much more about being assessed by an exam system. Some kids enjoy this; others don’t.

DD did English at Cambridge. The work was intense but do-able. Exams hard but do-able etc.

Socially it was difficult as so many students are foreign or not neurotypical. Our youngest does not really fancy applying either because he wants more of chill, social time.

On your last point, please do let her go and study English! It sounds like a course she’ll love and thrive in. But definitely let her cast her net wider when it comes to further study. A good friend of mine did English at Trinity in Dublin and still raves about it.

I know many people working in Publishing and they absolutely adore their jobs. Two of them writing their own novels in the background. Good luck to her!