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Post grad law conversions - reality of the usefulness of this?

297 replies

BobtheFrog · 23/02/2026 12:07

One of my DDs is looking to a post grad degree, law conversion in particular - looking for some mumsnet wisdom about this route. Good idea? Concerns / questions we should consider? Does it lead to meaningful work? What kind of work is down this route?

OP posts:
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9
Maggiethecat · 19/03/2026 21:55

Springisnearlyspring · 19/03/2026 20:55

I’d disagree there’s little info, I and some other posters shared various helpful links including A level grades required by a range of firms, SQE pass rates for 2.2 etc. Plus some up to date experiences from people who currently recruit or with dc who are current paralegals/trainees. Hopefully some of thread has been helpful to Op and others considering a conversion.

Agree with you @Springisnearlyspring you and others have provided information that will be very helpful to people who are not familiar with the current process and issues for entering the profession.

Ceramiq · 20/03/2026 09:33

It's not mean spirited to tell the truth. Mean spirited is to obfuscate or be overly confident about irrelevant, out of date information

The legal recruitment scene, like the IB and consulting recruitment scenes, is currently a bloodbath in many countries. AI is completely changing recruitment needs. The graduates that are being recruited have different academic profiles (in particular they have tech skills that were not previously needed in addition to sector specific skills).

OhDear111 · 20/03/2026 16:08

@Ceramiq Another rude post. On law threads I do believe I have something to offer as, I’m repeating myself, DD did everything herself. How you go about this can be of interest to others. Since when are people told they are not allowed to contribute? I think me and @Milmington have similar aged dc and surely knowledge of how they achieved their goals is of interest to some other people - I do understand not you.

Ceramiq · 20/03/2026 17:23

@OhDear111 For the benefit of everyone on this thread, could you perhaps clarify the exact years in which your DD graduated from university, did her law conversion, pupillage etc

OhDear111 · 20/03/2026 23:49

@Ceramiq Why? A career is a career. What changes? Nothing much. There’s still exactly the same choices and options. The main issue is a 2:2 is not going to be competitive. My DD is a pupil supervisor. She knows about who makes it and who doesn’t. Experience is better than none. You have none.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 21/03/2026 00:01

HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMyRear · 23/02/2026 18:05

Obviously that's one of the most useful and informed comments, so no criticism of Claudia.

I hate that an increasing number of companies treat all universities as equal. A graduate with a 2:2 from Cambridge is likely to know their subject better, be more academic, and have worked harder than someone with a 2:1 from Bangor.

What a load of bollocks.

What is usually the case nine times out of ten is that the person who went to Cambridge is from an upper middle class background.

Ceramiq · 21/03/2026 05:45

OhDear111 · 20/03/2026 23:49

@Ceramiq Why? A career is a career. What changes? Nothing much. There’s still exactly the same choices and options. The main issue is a 2:2 is not going to be competitive. My DD is a pupil supervisor. She knows about who makes it and who doesn’t. Experience is better than none. You have none.

You don't want to say because your DD was called to the bar about 20 years ago. Just as when you post about your DD's year abroad experience which was in another era (and pre-Brexit), you insist upon that experience being useful and valid when it's completely outdated and bears no relation to what young people are going through today.

Serafee · 21/03/2026 08:18

I am a practising solicitor. I worked at a very large international firm for most of my career. DH is a solicitor. He is office managing partner for a large national firm. We are both more than 25 years PQE. Two of our children are currently in the HE system, one non law, one law but both wanting to be lawyers. One is in the process of applying for Vacation schemes and training contracts. We have both had years of advising people about a career in law and recruiting junior lawyers. Both of us went to shit comprehensive schools in fully comprehensive areas with no grammar schools.

Im afraid anyone whose experience and knowledge is more than a couple of years old simply doesn’t understand what has happened in the legal market this year and to a slightly lesser extent last year. It’s brutal out there now and very different to even five years ago. The combination of changes to the qualification routes, new changes to graduate apprenticeships and the impact of AI (both on recruitment processes and the need for junior staff) are enormous. I suspect each year it’s going to get more difficult.

I repeat what I said at the top of the thread. Nobody should be starting law school without training lined up unless they’re happy to effectively lose that money. Nobody should be thinking of being a solicitor unless they’re very good at memory based closed book exams and have excellent academics because the SQE is an intensive and challenging exam and requires extremely hard work and attention to detail under pressure. It is not advisable to commit to self funded law school unless you have some work experience (partly to demonstrate that you appreciate that being a lawyer is absolutely nothing like bloody Suits, but in any event the recruitment processes now mean that work experience is generally a necessary part of the application process itself anyway and by the time you start law school you should have your training arranged).

The majority of law firms are now recruiting almost entirely from their vacation schemes which operate like an extended interview. Getting a place is highly competitive. The timing is not great for non law applicants because assessment centres and both spring and some summer schemes clash with finals. Non law students are also undertaking the same work as law students on the schemes but before they’ve studied any law at all which means they have to work harder to pick up the basics as they go.

Even once you have a place on a scheme the opportunity for conversion is generally about 1 in 3. Most firms still take direct applications but they often only really use these if they haven’t filled their slots on the schemes or in situations where a potential trainee has failed the SQE and their offer is withdrawn so an unexpected place has come up etc. Even minimum wage paralegal roles are extremely sought after and oxbridge graduates are working as paralegals to try to get a foot in the door. If you haven’t been to a London university you’re at a bit of a disadvantage in general if applying to London/US firms because it’s much harder (and more expensive) to attend the wooing events such as drinks/networking evenings/insight events where law firms try to attract junior talent.

Law firms don’t want any more trainees than is absolutely necessary for succession purposes. Trainees are very expensive and paralegals can do the same work for minimum wage.

The bar is much, much less competitive but places are still limited.

OhDear111 · 21/03/2026 08:33

@Ceramiq No she was not. Less than 10 years. You can stop guessing now. The fact is that law firms are very different and are not the Bar. Solicitors in international firms or any firm are not the bar and I have never ever pretended to know anything about those jobs other then knowing they are highly competitive. What I can say is how dc can prepare for being a barrister and particularly on certain routes which are less “academic”. Other posters know more about academic law than I do and fair enough. DD did the GDL. I also know what some of her friends did to prepare and it’s clear some chambers take Oxbridge grads only and everyone needs to consider the best route for them and aim appropriately in terms of area of law and Chambers. There are slightly different attributes required for different areas of practice. Saying I don’t know anything because DD is in her 40s (she isn’t) is ludicrous.

Maggiethecat · 21/03/2026 10:54

Serafee · 21/03/2026 08:18

I am a practising solicitor. I worked at a very large international firm for most of my career. DH is a solicitor. He is office managing partner for a large national firm. We are both more than 25 years PQE. Two of our children are currently in the HE system, one non law, one law but both wanting to be lawyers. One is in the process of applying for Vacation schemes and training contracts. We have both had years of advising people about a career in law and recruiting junior lawyers. Both of us went to shit comprehensive schools in fully comprehensive areas with no grammar schools.

Im afraid anyone whose experience and knowledge is more than a couple of years old simply doesn’t understand what has happened in the legal market this year and to a slightly lesser extent last year. It’s brutal out there now and very different to even five years ago. The combination of changes to the qualification routes, new changes to graduate apprenticeships and the impact of AI (both on recruitment processes and the need for junior staff) are enormous. I suspect each year it’s going to get more difficult.

I repeat what I said at the top of the thread. Nobody should be starting law school without training lined up unless they’re happy to effectively lose that money. Nobody should be thinking of being a solicitor unless they’re very good at memory based closed book exams and have excellent academics because the SQE is an intensive and challenging exam and requires extremely hard work and attention to detail under pressure. It is not advisable to commit to self funded law school unless you have some work experience (partly to demonstrate that you appreciate that being a lawyer is absolutely nothing like bloody Suits, but in any event the recruitment processes now mean that work experience is generally a necessary part of the application process itself anyway and by the time you start law school you should have your training arranged).

The majority of law firms are now recruiting almost entirely from their vacation schemes which operate like an extended interview. Getting a place is highly competitive. The timing is not great for non law applicants because assessment centres and both spring and some summer schemes clash with finals. Non law students are also undertaking the same work as law students on the schemes but before they’ve studied any law at all which means they have to work harder to pick up the basics as they go.

Even once you have a place on a scheme the opportunity for conversion is generally about 1 in 3. Most firms still take direct applications but they often only really use these if they haven’t filled their slots on the schemes or in situations where a potential trainee has failed the SQE and their offer is withdrawn so an unexpected place has come up etc. Even minimum wage paralegal roles are extremely sought after and oxbridge graduates are working as paralegals to try to get a foot in the door. If you haven’t been to a London university you’re at a bit of a disadvantage in general if applying to London/US firms because it’s much harder (and more expensive) to attend the wooing events such as drinks/networking evenings/insight events where law firms try to attract junior talent.

Law firms don’t want any more trainees than is absolutely necessary for succession purposes. Trainees are very expensive and paralegals can do the same work for minimum wage.

The bar is much, much less competitive but places are still limited.

Your perspective on the current position and outlook for aspiring solicitors is very useful.

I left practice 2 years ago and suspect that recruitment is vastly different now.

Dd has a VS place this summer and although her research indicates that the firm has a very high TC offer rate I suspect that this information may be now out of date.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I have seen only a couple of posters who are not with London/large National/ US firms which it seems much of the thread focuses on.

But it would be interesting to know what’s happening with smaller regional firms, high street firms local authority, in house. The numbers game will apply to these areas too but I wonder about their various current recruitment strategies.

There is a whole world of law and legal practice existing outside of
London and big firms and it would be good to hear from some of those practitioners too.

Serafee · 21/03/2026 13:47

Maggiethecat · 21/03/2026 10:54

Your perspective on the current position and outlook for aspiring solicitors is very useful.

I left practice 2 years ago and suspect that recruitment is vastly different now.

Dd has a VS place this summer and although her research indicates that the firm has a very high TC offer rate I suspect that this information may be now out of date.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I have seen only a couple of posters who are not with London/large National/ US firms which it seems much of the thread focuses on.

But it would be interesting to know what’s happening with smaller regional firms, high street firms local authority, in house. The numbers game will apply to these areas too but I wonder about their various current recruitment strategies.

There is a whole world of law and legal practice existing outside of
London and big firms and it would be good to hear from some of those practitioners too.

DS has a VS scheme this summer at a firm where last year they took double the number of trainees they are taking this year. They have also changed their recruitment policy this year so that they recruit exclusively via their VS (so they can be absolutely sure a candidate is the right fit).

A friend's firm (mid-sized regional) is no longer taking applications from anyone unless they already hold either a law degree or the PGDL and will no longer fund the PGDL. Since the firm still recruits two years in advance (like most others), this effectively means the student then has a year to fill between finishing law school.

DH's firm is reviewing its training strategy altogether since they were using the graduate apprenticeship model to enable their trainees to do the SQE whilst working as a paralegal. This is something quite a few regional and smaller firms were doing. It is no longer going to be possible because of the changes to graduate apprenticeship rules which require apprentices to be under 21. In the case of DH's firm they are likely to cut the number of trainees by about half.

Maggiethecat · 21/03/2026 16:41

@Serafee I reckon that if trainee numbers are going to significantly decrease especially with the advance of AI in legal services there will be even more pressure for paralegal jobs. More graduates will likely use the QWE and paralegal experience as the route to qualifying where possible. Surely there will then be a bottleneck at the NQ stage?

I’m not sure what I would be advising Dd if she were still in school/ about to start uni and considering a law career. Not that
I’d have much influence as she’s very headstrong anyway.

She informs me on a need to know basis about what’s going on but I’ll chat with her this weekend as she may wish to consider widening her applications.

She only applied to 5 firms this cycle and it may be a good idea to secure another VS place before she graduates next year 😳

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 16:04

Milmington · 03/03/2026 08:48

If a student wants to work at at large City firm then they need to apply for the relevant vac schemes. 'Unpaid internships' are a double edged beast. The same applies to the Bar.

At the end of the day, if you're a good fit for a Magic Circle firm/ chambers then you'll get a vac scheme/ mini pupillage regardless of the number of applications you put in. I would advise concentrating on a few applications not operating on an industrial scale - that's the surest way to scupper the work needed to get a good grade in your final degree.

There are always stories of '300 applications and no offers' and the conclusion drawn is always that that means a student has to exhaust themselves applying everywhere. It doesn't - false logic. But of course the first requirement is that you need to be good, and a good fit. That's not evidenced by getting work experience of dubious quality from connections or friends. Unless it's robust work experience (through an official channel) it's generally worthless.

Vacation schemes are not unpaid though. Some are very well paid and even fund accommodation. Once firm I know provides a £250 clothing allowance for a one week vac scheme to allow a suit to be bought.

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 16:11

Maggiethecat · 21/03/2026 10:54

Your perspective on the current position and outlook for aspiring solicitors is very useful.

I left practice 2 years ago and suspect that recruitment is vastly different now.

Dd has a VS place this summer and although her research indicates that the firm has a very high TC offer rate I suspect that this information may be now out of date.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I have seen only a couple of posters who are not with London/large National/ US firms which it seems much of the thread focuses on.

But it would be interesting to know what’s happening with smaller regional firms, high street firms local authority, in house. The numbers game will apply to these areas too but I wonder about their various current recruitment strategies.

There is a whole world of law and legal practice existing outside of
London and big firms and it would be good to hear from some of those practitioners too.

Not quite an exact answer to your question but DH's regional firm now has many more applicants with A*AAs and firsts whereas in the (quite recent) past they were predominantly AAA/AAB students with 2.1s. Hence they are recruiting at a higher academic level. Law in practice is still quite an academic career requiring a high level of critical thinking and analysis in many practice sectors.

They do however score the applications on their location too or connections to the area to prevent the high achievers using them to merely fund their postgraduate studies and provide training before they "bugger off" back to where they really live or into London. But this is only one small part of the scoring, especially if a candidate has a genuine reason for wanting to train with them (eg. partner in area, specific niche area of law they offer etc)

OhDear111 · 26/03/2026 17:01

@Spirallingdownwards I assume he’s factored in grade inflation! In both A levels and university grades? Theres far more around with this profile. I’d look far more closely at what A levels and GCSE profile, as Oxford do. There’s a reason for this.

These “better” students won’t necessarily be any better than people 10 years ago. They have just been processed through exams differently. Doesn’t make them a higher standard of employee.

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 19:06

OhDear111 · 26/03/2026 17:01

@Spirallingdownwards I assume he’s factored in grade inflation! In both A levels and university grades? Theres far more around with this profile. I’d look far more closely at what A levels and GCSE profile, as Oxford do. There’s a reason for this.

These “better” students won’t necessarily be any better than people 10 years ago. They have just been processed through exams differently. Doesn’t make them a higher standard of employee.

Edited

Yes they are factored in as well as which unis they are applying from. There is a far greater number of Oxbridge/UCL/Durham etc applicants than previously within their number. And I am not talking in comparison to 10 years ago but say 2 years ago.

The quality of the answers to the questions, work experience (non legal as well as legal) and everything. Candidates have upped their game and as City places are more competitive it is having a ripple effect to Tip 50 Law firms that are classed as regionals.

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 19:13

*Top

Serafee · 27/03/2026 09:41

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 16:11

Not quite an exact answer to your question but DH's regional firm now has many more applicants with A*AAs and firsts whereas in the (quite recent) past they were predominantly AAA/AAB students with 2.1s. Hence they are recruiting at a higher academic level. Law in practice is still quite an academic career requiring a high level of critical thinking and analysis in many practice sectors.

They do however score the applications on their location too or connections to the area to prevent the high achievers using them to merely fund their postgraduate studies and provide training before they "bugger off" back to where they really live or into London. But this is only one small part of the scoring, especially if a candidate has a genuine reason for wanting to train with them (eg. partner in area, specific niche area of law they offer etc)

Yes my old firm used to hate people who were clearly just using them as a stepping stone to London. Or even applying to a regional office in the hope of then transferring.

You need a differentiator. Everyone has AAA and above. Everyone has at the very least a high 2.1. DC now has two VS's and both are firms where he has a connection/differentiator (in his case local to his home area).

Serafee · 27/03/2026 09:44

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 19:06

Yes they are factored in as well as which unis they are applying from. There is a far greater number of Oxbridge/UCL/Durham etc applicants than previously within their number. And I am not talking in comparison to 10 years ago but say 2 years ago.

The quality of the answers to the questions, work experience (non legal as well as legal) and everything. Candidates have upped their game and as City places are more competitive it is having a ripple effect to Tip 50 Law firms that are classed as regionals.

Edited

It really is a different world to just a couple of years ago. Reduced places combined with a glut of candidates from previous years, combined with changes to SQE from LPC, combined with the expectation of being able to hit the ground running (via paralegaling), combined with AI meaning people have the ability to rattle off hundreds of applications, combined with multiple stage AI driven recruitment processes mean its extremely tough and produces some weird decisions. DS was rejected at first round for what I would consider to be a smallish, not particularly well known regional firm but then has a VS for one of the top law firms in the world.

Spirallingdownwards · 27/03/2026 09:49

@Serafee yes, similar with my DS and has a US law firm TC. (Currently doing post grad studies).

OhDear111 · 27/03/2026 09:57

I’m sure they all know how robust you have to be when working for the American firms. My DD has two such friends, one just about to qualify and one around 8 years post qualification. They come up for air occasionally! DD going to their wedding next week!

Maggiethecat · 27/03/2026 15:06

Spirallingdownwards · 26/03/2026 16:11

Not quite an exact answer to your question but DH's regional firm now has many more applicants with A*AAs and firsts whereas in the (quite recent) past they were predominantly AAA/AAB students with 2.1s. Hence they are recruiting at a higher academic level. Law in practice is still quite an academic career requiring a high level of critical thinking and analysis in many practice sectors.

They do however score the applications on their location too or connections to the area to prevent the high achievers using them to merely fund their postgraduate studies and provide training before they "bugger off" back to where they really live or into London. But this is only one small part of the scoring, especially if a candidate has a genuine reason for wanting to train with them (eg. partner in area, specific niche area of law they offer etc)

With the expected pinch points for London/City firms, if they are reducing trainee intake, regional firms may find that they have fewer retention issues.

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