Post grad law conversions - reality of the usefulness of this?

[BobtheFrog]

One of my DDs is looking to a post grad degree, law conversion in particular - looking for some mumsnet wisdom about this route. Good idea? Concerns / questions we should consider? Does it lead to meaningful work? What kind of work is down this route?

If they want to work in Law it is a requirement if they do not have a Law degree. Work experience and training contracts are competitive.

People take the course in order to become solicitors. (There’s a different route to becoming a barrister.)

So you should look at all the training and career paths for solicitors.

Start here:

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/law-students/

Thank you. By "competitive" does that mean ABB A levels and 2.2 degree (from a decent Uni) would be an impediment? I am trying to help DD decide what to do next (graduation is next year). My inclination is encourage her towards work experience over more qualifications

My dc just completed one. Requirement was a 2:2 undergrad. Applied with 2:1 and AAA at a level. Worth bearing in mind the MA Law qualifies for post grad loans, the PGDL does not, they are essentially the same course.

Competitive is not only about grades, reading around areas of interest, relevant work experience/internships, voluntary work, attending court all count. Often unpaid experience or paralegal roles can lead to training contracts with same firm.

volunteering (and unpaid work) is an interesting area - what sort of volunteering is there in legal sector and how do you find that?

Barristers whose first degree is non-law also do law conversion.

Law is highly competitive. If she wants to work as a solicitor at a city or US firm, or go to the Bar, she needs to get work experience now. My firm root out anyone without a 2:1 or above. We don’t discriminate on uni. We do look at GCSE and A-levels but if got a 2:1 will forgive weaker grades earlier on. I would advise she tries to get unpaid internships now and then a paid paralegal position after uni. I would not commit to the large expense of converting her non-law degree without being sure this is what she wants to do. She should visit court close to uni now and watch proceedings. Try and get into citizens advice bureau. See if non-law students can do pro bono at her uni. Speak to the law undergraduates. Tonnes of information online. It’s so competitive that she needs to really commit and demonstrate that commitment now or she won’t stand out amongst the competition. When I applied for training over twenty years ago there were over 900 applicants for 2 spots where I ended up. It’s much more competitive now. I had worked abroad for a charity specific to my area of law. Had been a paralegal throughout my degree so had built a network of contacts and had a lot of experience. It’s hard and even if she does qualify it’ll be long hours for years to come with little work/life balance. If you’re at a good firm you can earn a fortune.

The law conversion doesn’t qualify her to do anything meaningful she needs to also do further law exams to be either a solicitor or barrister - further cost. Then she has to secure training or pupillage to qualify and that training is the very competitive part.

Through the SQE route to becoming a solicitor, you no long need a law degree or conversion course. SQE1 ensures you have learnt all the necessary law, but the course is brutal.

The 2.2 is going to be her major issue. Focus on getting work experience and having more than her degree result on her CV.

(I knew I’d forgotten something, @HighburyHope - but my Law degree was forty years ago …)

My DD is planning to do a law conversion course 2027/28 to then train as a barrister the year after. The Law Conversion course is the same for barristers and solicitors. thereafter the training diverges.

DD will apply this October for a Law Conversion course starting in 2027. I believe it is a bit like a UCAS form with 5 choices. She is currently arranging as much legal work experience for this summer as possible as showing a commitment is essential to get an Inns of Court scholarship (good for budding barristers). So looking for an internship in a law firm, marshalling (shadowing a judge) in our local court and applying for a mini-pupillage. She is also training as an immigration advice advisor with the aim of doing pro bono work with a local refugee charity once she has passed her exams.

For the Bar one's chances of a pupillage are significantly increased with a 1st so she will have to work hard next year (she is on a four year course). Her university doesn't allow students to join the Law Society unless you are reading law so she is having to find her own opportunities. It is hard work and no guarantee of success.

My view is that a Law Conversion course is expensive and only worth doing if your DD is committed to becoming a lawyer. It might well be difficult to get a training contract to be a solicitor with a 2.2.

I am a solicitor and qualified in the early 90s. It was competitive then but it’s off the scale now.

I did not encourage either of my children to follow me . Both the bar and route to be a solicitor are incredibly competitive.

Since my early days in practice paralegals have become a big deal. They did not exist in the early 90s, not in big numbers anyway.

So what happens now is that highly qualified people, with great degrees from top unis are taken on as paralegals by solicitor firms, and paid buttons. They are all competing for a training contract. I see it in all the panel firms we use.

It must be soul destroying.

Anecdotally my son has a friend who got a 1st from York, trying to become a barrister. He is working as a paralegal for not much money . He got top A level grades from a super selective grammar. It’s crazy

Its absolutely brutal out there. I think a 2.2 means it’s not really realistic.

Obviously that's one of the most useful and informed comments, so no criticism of Claudia.

I hate that an increasing number of companies treat all universities as equal. A graduate with a 2:2 from Cambridge is likely to know their subject better, be more academic, and have worked harder than someone with a 2:1 from Bangor.

There are just too many applicants and not enough jobs. And that’s been the case for years.

You don’t need to get a 2.1 to be a lawyer. Not for the vast majority of legal fields anyway .

It’s simply a rationing mechanism

@Donttellempike in the late 1980s I worked as a paralegal in two city firms after graduation and before I went to the Bar. I was called a ‘legal assistant’ and it definitely wasn’t the usual route back then. Compared to the recent grads I know at the moment I was actually paid pretty well, but I was just treading water while I made up my mind what to do next.

She needs to get on all the law firm websites and apply for summer internships and eastern Christmas vacation schemes. The 2028 trainee intake for one firm I know, has its applications open now. If she’s really clever about this and investigate is a law firm may even pay her to go through her legal practice course

I agree (and I went to a terrible uni). I asked about this at work. It’s because we get hundreds of applications we just can’t interview them all so it’s a rough and ready way to get down to manageable numbers for the lawyers to review to then select for interviews.

Interesting, my career is not and was never going to be in the city. Which even when I was young was crazy competitive and required top grades.

I am talking about mid tier firms, who seem to be as exacting now in respect of trainees as City firms were 30 and 40 years ago. Because they can !

I think some young people just do not realise what they are up against , it’s crazy.

This is no longer the case now that the route to qualifying as a solicitor is via SQE.

However that said many firms will still sponsor their non law graduates to do the PGDL prior to the SQE and personally it is a braver person than I to attempt it without even if they do the SQE prep courses.

My DS has secured (during the year postgraduation) a training contract with a US law firm after too many applications to mention (but more than they tend to suggest). He has all 9/8s at gcses, 3 x A* at A level and the highest 2.1 (69.4%). It does come down to a numbers game. He got to a number of assessment centres, one vac scheme which led to his offer and they are now sponsoring all postgraduate studies and giving him maintenance grants too. But it took a large number of applications which were rejected at various stages.

I understand that there were 27000 law applicants this year. When you then factor in that in the profession around 50% of solicitors and barristers are non law students that's a very wide pool of applicants chasing approximately 6000 training contracts and 650 pupillages.

The good thing about the SQE is that (if you are prepared to self fund or source the courses that attract postgraduate student finance) is that you no longer NEED a formal training contract as you can qualify by completing 2 years qwe (qualifying work experience). This means those who secure paralegal roles will also be able to qualify but it does lead to a bottle neck if there are jot enough NQ roles available. There is of course the fact that solicitor apprenticeships are on the rise and this is making paralegal roles as competitive as training contracts.

My personal experience is only on the solicitor side of things although it took DIL 3 cycles to secure a pupillage and then like buses 3 came at once and she qualified as a barrister in October. She worked as a paralegal whilst applying for pupillage having self funded her bar course.

Can anyone advise on what the situation is like re. working in very local, high street law firms? The lawyers I see coming into these have often gone to lower-tier local universities, without great grades. I know that discussions on Mumsnet skew heavily towards top law firms - but what about people who may actually prefer to be a much more local solicitor (and yes, much less well-paid)?

And is it equally competitive if you want, say, to work in local government legal departments or other regulatory bodies?

Having grown up around lawyers, I am bewildered by the extraordinarily high academic achievements now required by some firms - I'd agree that the majority of ordinary law work does not seem to need genius-level intellect.

My understanding is that most solicitors firms still expect non law graduates to take a conversion course. See here: https://www.slaughterandmay.com/careers/early-careers/the-training-contract/the-route-to-qualification/

@Explodingdreams I was high street now local government. It’s brutally competitive. We are inundated every time we advertise.
SQE means lots are chasing paralegal roles as they can use paralegal as 2 year qualifying work experience to qualify as solicitors plus pass SQE1 & 2.
In local govt my team doesn’t stipulate minimum A levels or min degree or screen by uni uni but we get so many applicants and see quality applicants who wouldn’t have looked twice at us a few years ago.
My current trainee has a 1st albeit from a lower ranking uni and relevant paid work, oodles of work experience, position of responsibility at uni, academic prizes etc. They gave the best interview I’ve ever seen.
Recent paralegals (we pay them similar money to McDonalds) include a yp with a 2.1 from Durham, A* A levels, running his own business and 6 months ft volunteering at CAB. Another paralegal has a 1st from a well ranked uni and a masters.
Average age to qualify is 31 as a solicitor.
Lots in high street or local government will have worked for years to try and get experience, working alongside study and self funding their SQE, the exam fees alone are £5000.
Some are also coming up by solicitor apprenticeship route so their degrees will be from a local uni or BPP. My colleagues daughter secured one in her gap year. Needed A grade academics and was working ft and doing another A level self study to demonstrate she could work and study plus several years pt customer facing work history (and parent a solicitor to advise her)

A conversion course will take her money but realistically with those A levels and a 2.2 she will be excluded from applying for most training contracts and will struggle to obtain paralegal work in such a competitive market.
Whilst a law degree or conversion isn’t technically required to be a solicitor most firms require it and I personally can’t see how you can pass SQE1 which tests functional legal knowledge without.
For volunteering lots of law students will work in their uni student legal advice clinic. These are set up like law firms with solicitors supervising and they provide advice under supervision. Some unis offer it as a module or volunteer around studies.
Other ideas are CAB or law centres.

https://sqe.sra.org.uk/sqe-results/reports/sqe1-july-2025

SRA release detailed reports about SQE exams. It’s a low pass rate and you can see how low percentage passing with a 2.2 is.

Bar also release detailed stats for barristers. As expected those with a first much more likely to secure pupillage.