Distance from home

[splendidlyambivalent]

Very interesting thread on a Facebook site I am on. The poster says she (he?) doesn’t understand why parents want their kids to choose unis within a 2 hour radius. So many replies say it is sensible because of need to support them if ill/ND etc. But a lot of the replies also mention parental convenience (selfish criterion IMHO). My eldest three DC never considered distance - they all went to the best uni for their course (in a place they liked). Their unis were 3, 5 and 8 hours away - despite fact two of my DC are ASD. It was the making of them - rather than asking me to visit to sort out a problem (as they had always done at school), they stepped up and got in the habit of doing it themselves! And when they were ill (freshers flu etc), none asked me to scoop them up and take them home. If it had been serious, my drive would have been a couple of hours longer - so what (unless we are meant to be choosing unis on basis of kids having life-threatening injuries). I just think parents are way too neurotic. Am I wrong? Being so far away from us, my three learnt to problem-solve for themselves and be self-sufficient adults who didn’t pop home constantlt for weekends. Love them to bits and missed them but we all coped not seeing each other for 10 weeks at a time (thank you FaceTime!). They got the maximum out of their uni experience as a result. I ask this question as youngest child about to submit uni application and she has picked Edinburgh, St Andrews, Durham, Lancaster and York - all many hours away from us on south coast!

Sure parents contribute. They are meant to top up loan awarded to the max. It is not the student’s fault that their loan is based on parental income - so parents should top up. Amazing how many families are financially illiterate/naive and just don’t realise this until kids about to go to uni. But make no mistake - most students themselves pay far more than parents (tuition fees and at least minimum loan every year) - so the uni they choose should be their choice. Parental convenience irrelevant

@splendidlyambivalent I did say that I don’t think parental contribution gives the right to dictate where a student goes.

To be real tho, the vast majority of parents I know are basically paying their DCs' accommodation – rental costs have risen and the loan has not – which in a lot of cases is around £8-10k pa. So it's a significant sum. Yes, the student will pay more in the end, but the parent is shelling out a good deal now. But again, I don't think they should therefore say “I’m paying xxx so you need to go to y uni” –that’s not conducive to a great relationship I suspect.

It’s a consideration tho. I don’t think it is irrelevant. You have said you do, and that’s fine. But you are not everyone. A friend’s DC went to unis a long drive away. I think as parents they found it inconvenient, but there were good reasons for the choice. My DC being close was a good thing in many ways – not least bc I can go to lots of DS's matches, unlikely if he were in Aberdeen. But I would not have vetoed Aberdeen – merely pointed that out as one of many factors to consider.

DS btw tho only 30 mins drive away almost never comes home. He seems to have settled pretty well into independence. That’s a function of his character rather than bc he is near or far from us.

I think “the best uni” is made up of a lot of factors, which for us included (not in order!) distance from home, practicality of travel, cost of accommodation, size of city, campus vs city, and for sure the course and the offer. That list will differ for others – I think this is the issue you are not grasping. I am glad it’s working out for your DC.

@splendidlyambivalent Not all students will pay over 40 years though. Better paid ones won’t. Part time ones won’t pay much off.

I too am amazed many parents see the contribution as a surprise. Possibly it’s because nearly double the % go to university now when compared to “their day”. So they don’t get up to speed with saving.

So long as there's a train or an airport, and a way of getting home in 8 hours or fewer, we did not consider "distance" to be a deciding factor.

When I went to uni, it was 2-3 hours on the train. I didn't consider this a long distance, either.

I do think this is a shame. University used to be about reinventing yourself, meeting people from different backgrounds, broadening your horizons, learning to get along with people different from you.

. It seems more common for people to turn up at university looking to cling to people who are just like them rather than branching out and allowing themselves to change. Going home all the time to hang out with pre-existing friends doesn't help this kind of growth.

Friendships made at age 11 or younger can be very stifling to this kind of growth

I don't think ability to come home easily during term time ought to be a criterion when selecting a course/university: the UK is a tiny country and it really isn't hard to get around once a term + possible reading week. Crikey, if that's hard, life is going to be very challenging!

Topping up loan to max doesnt cut it in most places. There’s a yr2 rent thread running at minute giving costs over 52 weeks, £9000 a year isn’t uncommon. My dc’s isn’t in a particularly expensive city and it’s £8400 plus bills.
Max loan is £10,227. Most parents I know are paying much more than top up, parents pay rent dc live on min loan is common.
What catches people out is the fact thresholds haven’t changed for years. They don’t consider themselves very high earners on £33,000 a year but both parents on that and dc gets min loan.
I work in a professional team and my colleagues with small children had no idea of how little loan they would get and sky high cost of accommodation (they do now!)
My dc is at her choice 4.5 hours away and her second choice was a flight away but she and I recognise she was fortunate to be in that position as we can financially and practically support her.
Parental convenience and finance needs to be factored in. Not saying they should veto but be clear on accommodation costs and what can contribute financially and practically.
Realistically an 18 yr old will struggle to move themselves to and from uni without a car and if you’ve got no money you can’t do the international student trick of buying everything when you get there.
If you are living on max loan for everything ability to go home and do washing versus £8 a time in circuit laundry or a £20 national express ticket would be your food money for that week so it’s understandable some choose nearer options.

Agreed. I was surprised to hear that "friend groups" went to various universities en masse. I know of several in recent years.

Depends on the student and circumstances though. DS rarely comes back. We’ve seen DD 4 times since September because her Gran died just before she went and she’s struggling with grief and homesickness. Things can come out of the blue, personally I don’t think it’s a bad thing to consider hassle/time/expense of getting home.

Great post @Cakeandusername I very much agree. It’s fine for some pps to say distance is not relevant [for them] but it is for others, The cost of coming home even once a term might be too much for a student really watching the ££. So it is worth considering – I don’t think anybody is saying it’s the most important factor tho.

I agree too re accommodation costs – I do bang on about this but I know numerous parents who have been taken aback by the high rents charged in their DCs’ uni city, both for halls and private rents. There are places where the halls and shared houses are cheaper and while, again, this won’t be a factor for all, for some it will be. I’m paying DS2’s rent for his final year and I am very glad it is about £7k a year rather than the £10k a friend is paying for their DC in a rather expensive city.

What catches people out is the fact thresholds haven’t changed for years. They don’t consider themselves very high earners on £33,000 a year but both parents on that and dc gets min loan.

This with bells on. £33k is indeed not a high salary really for a person in their 40s+ but double it and bang, you are on min loan. And tbf this has changed rapidly. Our HH income is not a huge amount higher than it was in 2019 when DD went to uni, but it’s gone up enough (and the threshold has not) that her loan was about £6.5k while DS now gets the min.

Lots of her year went to same unis an hour or two away. Leeds, York, Manchester, Lancaster, Liverpool. They do seem to meet up at uni sometimes or come back home a few times a term. It’s still a new city to them.
Personally I can understand choosing York not Exeter if they are same grades and similar ranking, latter is over 5 hours drive and no easy public transport. £10 home or over £100. £30 petrol to drop off in September with all their belongings versus £300 inc hotel overnight. Not saying it’s be all and end all but it’s definitely a conversation to be had.
My dc was unusual as she wanted somewhere where there was hardly anyone from school and totally different environment to home but I reckon our and her travel costs inc hotels were easily over £1000 yr1. She came home once semester 1 for a pre booked concert with friends, for Christmas and at Easter semester 2 so it wasn’t like she was coming home frequently but it still mounts up.

While I had the 'reinventing' experience myself and liked it, I think it's wrong to look down on people who have good friendship groups back home as though they're inferior and 'stifling'. Plenty of people never leave their local friendship groups and have rich, rounded and fulfilling lives. It doesn't speak well of your broadened horizons to see someone else's positive experience as a shame.

There's a divide on this thread between people who think their way was right and others who favour whatever works for each individual situation. Not everyone needs to ditch their old friends to go off on an Eliza Doolittle journey any more than everyone needs to stay home and only see the same old faces.

Plus things are very different now anyway given that young people can stay in their rooms and make friends all over the world online with untold reinvention, so there's less need to go away and come back as a goth as part of one's growth.

Totally agree @pinkdelight . It comes back to a very elitist way of thinking - for the majority of the last 100 years, most people have not had the luxury of going away to uni and reinventing themselves. Are they inferior/have they had a limited life? I went away to university without knowing anyone; I don't remember the people I met at uni being radically different to my friends at home anyway, they were still on the whole middle class British young people!

I think it's a little sad/ an indication that the young person hasn't had the easiest time so far, if someone is desperate to get away from where they're from and never go back. But I appreciate that there are young people in that situation and totally support them going away and having a fresh start. But it's not 'the ideal' or something to be aspired to.

Being realistic, many young people also have to go 'back home' once they graduate; it can be very hard for them if they don't have any friends there.

But the OP and others on this thread are clearly not able to see that there are different ways of doing things and we all have different circumstances.

Distance also doesn’t stop the big group from school scenario, some schools will have big groups going to Durham etc and it’s human nature they will gravitate towards each other at least at first.
2 on your dc’s list @splendidlyambivalent are 4 year Scottish courses, it’s not on if yp sticks them down on ucas without checking that mum/dad is up for funding an extra year. Definitely needs parental agreement.
You can’t pretend going to St Andrews will cost a southern England based dc same as going to an English uni an hour away. Easily another £15,000 over course of degree for a parent to fund - yr 4 accommodation and additional travel costs. 4 out of your dc’s 5 picks are in the ultra high accommodation costs category. Most parents I know would at least want them to consider more affordable options.

We let our kids choose wherever they want to go. However, one is around 2 and a half hours away by train as they like to come home regularly for weekends - they miss us and their home friends, plus their uni friends all live fairly close by so are often home for weekends too. Other child will choose a university where they can live in, but get home very quickly and easily as they are under hospital care and have to have regular appointments.
Honestly, from some of your posts it comes across as though you don’t understand not everyone’s experience will be the same as yours.

@FlippityKibbet Some dc now go
to university who would never have gone 50 years ago. It’s not about academic ability, it’s about a readiness to meet others and expand horizons. Some dc are up for it and others cling to home. DH and my DDs didn’t have friends at home to cling on to. Neither did they go en masse to a few universities. I think this is more of a northern thing. Never seen this in uni destinations from our local grammars. A very diverse range chosen. The largest cohort to Oxbridge!

Death of older folk happens. We’ve all had bereavements. Most of us struggle through even when a parent dies.

I think it depends on what works for both the student and the family in terms of course, distance and finance. I find the comments on this thread about those who want to stay near to home and maintain friendships in their home town to be quite sneery: no need to look down on or belittle those who have made different choices.

I don't know where the goth bit comes into it. I'm talking about having to get along with and making friendships with international students and students who have grown up in different types of household or parts of the country or who have different interests. All the things that make us more interesting and tolerant people.

It's not about ditching old friendships, it's about embracing the new experiences and the new people in front of them. There's nothing wrong with staying home for University and nothing wrong with moving back home after University and picking up old friendships if that is what someone wants to do.

But if you do move out, and you're visiting old friends at home every week, you will be spending less time socialising with those at University you're less likely to change your views or values. I think it is a missed opportunity. That's all.

I am in my 50s so was not at university 50 yrs ago. 😂

The goth bit was a jokey reference to 'reinvention', the kind of thing that late 20thC students did after being away for a term and forging a whole new identity. Which often went away again after a while and got ironed out by their grad job.

But anyway, the large northern town where I come from had plenty of international residents and people who'd grown up in different types of households with different interests, so not everyone needs to go away to uni to find diversity and become more interesting/tolerant people, if indeed that is what makes us more interesting/tolerant (as this thread shows, some people don't seem so tolerant of difference despite their enthusiasm for farflung uni experiences). As a PP said, arguably the pool of people at uni can be less diverse, class-wise, and these days the range of sub-cultures can be less distinct at uni's anyway. People find their tribes online as much as at the SU bar, where they spend less time anyway with less emphasis on drinking culture, and I'm not sure the flexibility of their views/values ever hinged on uni socialising.

I get what you mean. We had a good time at uni in the past. But times change and god knows unis and the world facing young people have change a lot. I got one of the last grants to help me go away and have my reinvention adventure. Would I have been so up for it if it was going to cost me and my folks a fortune? Probably not. Anyway, I come back to the same point. Different strokes etc...

@OhDear111 your experience is fairly narrow though - whilst ds' sixth form friends who are still local went to the comprehensive with him, he was previously at a grammar school in the midlands until year 11. I just checked the leavers' destinations for his year from grammar and out of 120ish, 30 went to the local RG university, 40 to the other two universities in the city and a large number went to other fairly local/midlands universities too. The same was true of dd's cohort in another city grammar school. So it's not just comprehensive school students who stay local. And they're not generally doing it because they want to 'cling to home'. There are all sorts of reasons - family commitments, religion, cost, retaining a part time job at home etc.

I think it's a bit sad that some students don't have friends at home; I can see this is inevitable if you've been to boarding school, but it's still a shame. I'm happy that my kids have good strong 'home' friendship groups, as well as friends at uni and others made from various events/camps etc they've attended over the years. And if they hadn't gone to uni, they'd have made friends in other ways anyway. University is only 3/4 years - a very small portion of your life really.

You seem particularly bothered by this OP.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks…

Yes I very much agree with this. By all means go to St Andrews from your home in Sussex if you want and your parents are happy with it (I do think that's important as I say) but if you choose to stay near home, that doesn't make you a lesser person, or someone who “clings to home”. My DD has come back from uni and lives at home with us; that's fine with us. It’s a good thing she kept up her friends network. Tbh her uni experience was impacted by Covid, as so many were, and other factors too. But I don’t see any of that as being an admission of defeat. She has a working role she enjoys, a good group of friends, a hobby that has led her to meet new friends. All good.

The fact that she didn't want to go to uni 500 miles away doesn't make her experience and her life any les valid. I don't mean btw that a DC who has chosen far-flung unis is wrong either. If everyone who needs to be is happy, go for it.

The difference I realize has a lot to do with the cost of living and property for AFTER graduation.

When I graduated from a Northern university I went to live in London, but not back with my parents, I rented flats with a boyfriend. Rent was not particularly high and we were able to buy a 1 bed flat in Clapham for 60k. That flat now costs 600k (I no longer own it).

So I do think this impacts where people are happy to travel to, it's a different cost but a long term one that must have some bearing on decisions.

@crazycrofter No doubt it also depends on what local universities you have. Nearest 2 here and languishing near the bottom of league tables. I suspect local dc in the non grammar secondaries might be attracted to them but no one else. Others I know from non grammars have all left home. It’s just about suitable courses and nothing much locally. Cities are very different and leavers destinations show local unis used more but of course they do outreach locally as well.