Oxbridge graduates who can’t get a job

[AquaLeader]

Interesting article in The Times this morning.

Meet the Oxbridge graduates who can’t get a (good) job -
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxbridge-graduates-cant-get-good-job-d9ddj9dff

It is unlikely to be a coincidence that the graduates highlighted all appear to hold degrees in the humanities.

There are some odd quotes in there:
“A woman from the council informed me that my application, with an Oxford degree, seven As and three A’s at GCSE, didn’t refer to a qualification in maths.”
That’s written as if this council woman is annoying with her criticism, but if your degree is in French and German and you’re applying for a job that requires maths, you need to put it on your cv. Obviously.*
Yes I picked that out too. It must have said you need maths and English at L2, as you do in most jobs. It's not a given that people have them if you have a humanities degree. If it's in the essential requirements and she hasn't listed it it shows she either hasn't done it or she hadn't read the job description/ doesn't know how to fill in a job application.
I thought Oxbridge students were discouraged from working because of the volume of work which is fair enough but if they are competing with blind applications and other grads who have work experience they are disadvantaged.

But they have long summer vacations when they can, and the ones I’ve known do.
A certain amount of relevant internship was a requirement for DDs course (engineering).

You can't just magic up aperitifs in stem of your just not good at maths. We also need humanities grads. Creative industries contribute an enormous amount to the economy and are susceptible to changes in technology especially AI. If everyone did STEM then some people, especially the ones forced to do it when they weren't good at it would be unemployed.

In my opinion, The Times is grinding two of its axes with this article: rubbishing elite universities and dissing humanities degrees. The journalist sought out graduates who haven't yet found a job. A very skewed sample and not good journalism.
At least they blocked comments to prevent the usual onslaught of people who retired before these kids were born to engage in their favourite pastime of droning on about lattes, tiktok and 'they should have done an apprenticeship in plumbing'

Interesting. DD was an Oxbridge reject and instead went to a top 5 Uni to study Politics and IR. She just graduated and landed a graduate job in communications with a Political Lobbying firm in Central London. She also applied via Work4MPs like one of them mentioned in the article and also did a lot of journalism work for the Uni paper. The thing though that really made the difference however was the volunteering work she did at 17 for a youth activist movement and then for a charity that supports young girls at school, this was the biggest discussion during her interview.

There are many bright young people out there who work really hard and it is encouraging to see that Oxbridge graduates are not privy to the pick of the jobs. I think it is mainly click bait though isn't it?

Can't read the article but noted it said (good) job. What us a good job? Is it something in their field or something with 40k+ a year?
Many graduates, especially from top universities can have unrealistic expectations.
A lot of graduate jobs start at not much higher than minimum wage.

@intrepidpanda

fyi, archive access posted upthread

This article to me simply shows how varied graduates are. Oxford provides a super academic education but in my view it is the 'everything else' that determines whether you are employable. When I'm interviewing I look at:

• Have you had a minimum wage job as a waiter / labourer that shows you are reliable and honest and will do what you're asked to do
• Did you run a society or club at Uni
• Did you do something interesting or creative with your uni vacations / spare time (as well as paid work)
• Do you have passion for the sector you've applied for

DC graduated last year from Oxford, like some of these people, and spent the summer after graduating working 12 hr days putting up marquees and applying for jobs. He was targeted and passionate about what he applied for. I know it doesn't work for everyone but to some extent you make your luck. He had the benefit of a year's work experience before Uni. Within three months of graduating he was in a 'good' job - not though at the ridiculous salary level some seem to be expecting!

None of those interviewed appeared to have much drive for particular field or career... that may well have come through in their applications... I think the competition for generic graduate traineeships is now intense as companies cut back. Also the application process using AI faceless interviews makes it hard for many.

One of the things that put me off Oxbridge is that they actively deter students from working during term time (would interfere with studying etc, my reaction "how do you expect me to cover living costs on my £4k/year loan plus grant?")

They don't incorporate placement years in the degree course.

It all makes for pretty lousy "ready for work" graduates... Being clever doesn't make you employable.

One of the things that put me off Oxbridge is that they actively deter students from working during term time (would interfere with studying etc, my reaction "how do you expect me to cover living costs on my £4k/year loan plus grant?")

Work in the vacations?

You have to be tenacious and gave work experience to get a grad job in this market. DD is second year and applied for loads of internships. It takes a lot of grit to keep going through all the stages and rejections. The one she got at final stage interviews really focussed on all her work experience (she has worked since she was 15 inc at uni). They like to see commitment, maturity, life skills. I sometimes think people are inclined to see their degree as a passport to great things and believe they will be targeted by recruiters.

But not sure having your name published in a national paper complaining about how unemployable you are, and admitting to being arrogant/falsifying other students' applications (and I wouldn't be surprised essays!) for cash, or arguing with prospective recruiters, for every future employer to find when googling you, was a good idea.

IKR? 😂 I'd be fuming if I had supported my dc all through GCSEs, A-levels (aka paid for tutoring) and Oxbridge application plus probably expensive co-curricular activities for a decade at least only to find out that my cherub has decided to be in national news moaning about how unemployable they are. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. They were probably flattered to be interviewed by The Times. Not a wise move but maybe a wake up call - too late to delete that particular digital footprint.

My daughter is working 60 hours a week as a chef in a gastropub at the end of her gap year before starting uni, aged 19. She worked Sundays and one evening a week all through sixth from, from aged 16, as a pot washer and then kitchen assistant at another restaurant. All of my kids have had tough retail or hospitality jobs from 16 or 17. They all then get internships and more career oriented jobs in uni holidays. None of them “needed” to - we are v comfortable and they were privately educated - but they wanted to. All of them wanted the independence and satisfaction of a job well done. For those Oxbridge kids to get to the end of a whole damn degree and never having held down any sort of job is insane. Why would anybody hire them for a grad job over someone who has a proven ability to get up in the morning and work hard as part of a team?

Pretty sure that ranking uses a raw number of students from each uni and Manchester has a much bigger student population than Oxbridge or many of the very best unis so it's misleading.

They get half the year as not term time at Oxbridge so plenty of opportunity to work as well as working pre university. Some take it, some don't, but work experience will be a differentiator between candidates.

There's also been huge variations in outcomes. Most start of applying for dream job but it's always been very rare to get it straight off first attempt and it's often how people handle that which makes a difference to outcomes. There are those who will target another job like say accountancy and go on to earn well if somewhat dull. There are those who will do another job as a stepping stone, apply later and get dream job. There is a third category who do not do so well in terms of well paying or dream jobs, people who won't do either of the jobs above and expect to walk into dream job and doesn't happen. This group often moan about how life was so much easier a generation ago rather than put effort in doing things like taking a job rather than dream one, volunteering, moving to job location. Some are professional socialisers and don't actually want to do work. Some have parents who will bail them out, pay for Masters, pay for house and car, pay for travel, 4 out of 5 in the article were doing travel or a Masters rather than taking jobs and working up and then telling the nation about it, not the smartest move. These people have no incentive to take a job which isn't their dream one as life is comfortable anyway. It also varies by subject, some subjects attract people far more career aware than others and people who have done some research fair much better. Though time in Australia sounds good to me.

Instead I almost went back to the seaside café I worked at from the age of 16 to 20, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. So I signed on. My benefits claim came through. £300. I booked the flights. I'm not thrilled my taxes are paying for this person's leisure time. Surely she can get any job rather than scrounging £300 from tax payers. She's young, educated, healthy so what's the problem. The naive entitlement of these 4 privileged young Oxford graduates is astounding.

I’ve interviewed Oxbridge grads who, whilst clearly extremely bright, simply have no concept of the world of business. Many have never worked, never done shifts in a shop or a bar, and haven’t developed the skills which are just as important as book smarts. I’d take a grad from a middling university who’d grafted over a head in the clouds Oxbridge grad with no experience outside the library.

I’ve not read the article as no subscription, but I don’t think the degree topic matters that much for a lot of industries. I work in finance and studied business management at a poly.

I worked part time from the age of 15, I knew how to talk to people and get along well with everyone. Despite joining a grad programme I was always happy to dive in and have a go at things and never thought anything was beneath me (there was one time I got grumpy because someone wanted to move me to another team to do some admin type work and I pushed back because it meant I wouldn’t have got the relevant experience to complete my PQ in time, so I got them to agree it was only for a short and fixed period of time, but I still did it).

Why do the parents get the blame here?

And why are you astonished??

Extraordinary as these young people will certainly have a brain in their head, and might have worked that one out 🙄

There are some odd quotes in there:
“A woman from the council informed me that my application, with an Oxford degree, seven As and three A’s at GCSE, didn’t refer to a qualification in maths.”*
That’s written as if this council woman is annoying with her criticism, but if your degree is in French and German and you’re applying for a job that requires maths, you need to put it on your cv. Obviously.

What was weird to me was that this quote wasn't then followed up with any further info. AFAIK a pass at GSCE maths is a very standard requirement for many careers, so did this genius in languages have a pass at maths GCSE? And if she does, why not mention that? And if she doesn't, well she's not that bloody bright is she?!! I'm a complete idiot at maths, but even I have a Grade C.

I see one of them has a degree in French and German. So why not teaching then? Or go to France or Germany for a while to become really fluent.

A lot of the comments on here are true of graduates from any university, not just Oxbridge or other high ranking university.

DD is taking a winding route to become fully qualified in her choice of career. Gap year between school and university (when she worked and volunteered) then a gap two years between undergraduate and post grad (when she worked in a relative field and gained another qualification).

The jobs she has had gave her invaluable soft skills, resilience and experience which will, hopefully, be invaluable when she qualifies and is seeking work in her field.

They all come across as extremely entitled: yes, sometimes it’s hard to find a job but you have nice choices, eh, kids? No surprise the Times found a Sebastian to interview; surprised he wasn’t photographed clutching his teddy bear, though.

Pretty appalled by Eliza, who “ghostwrites” other students’ university application forms for a “dodgy agency”. Where’s your integrity, Eliza?

Times-reading parents with aspirations for their older teenagers will be fretting about the latter’s potential career opportunities post hypothetical Oxbridge; in the real news, the future of Ukraine depends on the whims of two megalomaniacs and a genocide is taking place in plain sight in Gaza.

My heart isn’t bleeding for Eliza et al: the wider world is a tough place. You’ll all be fine, though, I am sure.

surprised he wasn’t photographed clutching his teddy bear, though.

😆

I've always assumed your typical book shop worker on minimum wage has an oxbridge degree.

They are notoriously not very well rounded and lack employability skills.
One particular Oxford graduate who I know couldn't hold down a nice local job in research that he found via family connections (he found working in an office of around 15 people too stressful), and has settled on doing a bit of freelance writing to earn a living.

Is it still the case that oxbridge forbids you working part time whilst you study?