Son not allowed to continue to second year at uni

[PocketSand]

DS2 has just completed his first year in an engineering degree. His results are all over the place from 1st in maths to 2:2 to required resits. He exceeded the A level grade requirements for MEng. He is autistic and has ADHD. He was un medicated prior to and during most of his first year due to shortages followed by referral to cardiology.

His DSA support didn't start til the spring term and one support worker provided 1 hour support when 30 hours was approved. He constantly tells the one he has seen that everything is fine and they believe him.

He always says everything is fine and doesn't ask for help. He has never been to the library and relies totally on lecture notes. He doesn't know what independent study is. I have always been his advocate but now he is expected to advocate for himself. No one at the uni knows these issues - he has not even contacted his personal tutor let alone disability services and just thinks he needs to work harder.

He found out today that he has failed his third submission of a lab report he initially submitted in February. He did not have DSA agreed support at that time so he didn’t have his own laptop. He borrowed another student’s at the time but when he had to resubmit no longer had access to his results and so he tried to cobble together a report using specimen (and maybe someone else’s results - not clear). He had previously received an email saying he couldn’t proceed unless he passed resubmission. I assume that’s where we are at now.

His feedback is harsh - shouldn’t study for a degree if not prepared to use feedback to improve his work. Trouble is he often doesn’t understand the feedback and he is unwilling to ask for clarification as he fears tutor’s anger. He says he doesn’t know who marked the work so doesn’t know who to talk to and seems generally clueless about most administrative issues.

I feel completely in the dark and don’t know where to go from here. Obviously I don’t want to just give up and accept his journey ends here as it seems very unfair but don’t know what I can do to try and enable him to fix this or if it can be fixed.

Can anyone who knows the system provide advice on next steps please?

But not everyone with autism or adhd has the same abilities or disabilities. Maybe you could do it on your own but that doesn’t mean everyone can at first.

I have been a student at a number unis and I have had a DSA at all of them. I have dyslexia and arthritis so different but I can give some general advice.

When he goes back, either to repeat the year or to repeat the module / unit.

He should be meeting with his personal tutor once a week and with his support worker at least once a week.

Take all work / assignments he is working on to the support worker. They cannot help with content but they can give advice on structure and this is key, interpret the feedback so he understands it.

Any work he is planning he can also take to his personal tutor to say, "this is my plan, is this what you are wanting?"

Universities often run 'study sessions' usually in the library and these are like gold dust. They teach you how to use the library, structure your time sign post you where to go for help.

He also need to back up his work in some way so if his laptop were to be stolen he would still have access to it. An easy way is to set up a second email and email it to yourself. In the situation where he tried to redo some work that he no longer had access to, this is where a personal tutor can help

He might, just, be able to claim extenuating circumstances, that depends on the uni and what has actually happened.

Yes I absolutely have done it. I also did it as someone with autism. Despite my diagnosis my parents never wrapped me in cotton wool and wiped my arse for me. This idea that if someone with autism finds something difficult or uncomfortable then it is going to give them trauma so we shouldn't encourage them to do it is not the case.

Everyone has to learn to step out of their comfort zone and people with autism can and do learn skills - some take longer than others and that is the whole point. We cannot ignore teaching skills just because some find it harder or take longer. What that means is that we give them longer and give them support for extended periods but we still give them the opportunities to learn.

Oh it can and often does make a blind bit of difference. You are writing people off who have disabilities as if they can't ever achieve things so we'll not try. He will never learn if he doesn't have the chance to and pretending he can't will not help him.

So how did I end up in a professional job having been to uni 4 times and yet as someone with autism you think that shouldn't be the case? Because my parents pushed me to learn independence skills early on. I was making my own butties for school at 4. Why? Because a 4 year old can when given the opportunity to learn how to spread butter and make a sandwich. I could iron and cook and do basic DIY by 11. How come? Oh yes because my parents spent time showing me how to do it. By the time started high school I was made to do things myself - make Drs appointments, dentists etc and by 18 as soon as I could drive I was encouraged to do the family shop. Learning how to manage money and do groceries shopping.

So yes while people with disabilities may find it harder to learn or it takes longer, you have no idea what someone is capable of if you do not try to help them to learn. Writing them off as 'oh they are disabled so can't ever do it' is a shite way of thinking about people and treats them as if they are not capable when absolutely most are. It might come as a shock but people with autism can and do learn independent skills, they can be successful in amazing careers. To write someone off because it takes more effort to help them to learn is just appalling.

Sounds like it's been a really tough year for him. Take a year out and get a strategy in place of how to approach uni. Reapply specifically to unis with good support framework. Consider unis close to home where you can continue supporting and gradually work on the independent learning skills. Reflect on the course and what is the right option for him. He may be better suited to progressing with Maths but you can spend some time together considering this. He can always pick up on engineering post graduate.

As you know parenting a child with additional needs looks different from a typical child, the same goes for parenting a child with additional needs through the uni experience.

Uu

@AngryBookworm "Ultimately if he can't improve work based on feedback or admit when he needs support, he won't be able to do much with an engineering degree - this may be an incentive for him to challenge himself. (I'm saying all this assuming he can do that - if having someone else advocate for him at all times is an access need, post-secondary education will need to look a bit different)." I've been thinking about this. There was no feedback on the actual report following the second attempt. There is usually a scanned copy of the report with handwritten feedback but this time it was missing. So Im not sure he didn't respond to feedback rather than he didn't receive any about the actual report. The only feedback was in a text box relating to how the supporting document should be structured and submitted as a PDF which he followed. He emailed the main lecturer for the course about this before his final submission but didn't get a response (and still hasn't).

Ah, OP, I really feel for you (and I say that as a parent of a neurodivergent child, and an academic). From my perspective as an academic, it is really difficult to support people we don't know about, and the way we get to know someone needs support is through the disability services people.

One way you might be able to support your son is to point out that he is now in a situation where engineering isn't working--my ND child can be both brutally stubborn and brutally pragmatic, perhaps yours is too? An Oxbridge degree offers ALL students a high level of personal support, and might challenge him more in math, so that he doesn't feel it is as laughable as he currently does.

You're best going to visit student support with your son, to talk to them.

The report was initially submitted in February and not marked for months. He had to wait until access was reopened a 2nd attempt and this did not happen until July. He had five days to submit and then waited over a week for it be be marked and then for access for a third attempt to be granted. He waited about 7 weeks for the third attempt to be marked. He has followed the timetable dictated by the online system.

He clearly is more suited to Maths than Engineering.

I would be focusing my efforts in encouraging him to consider switching to a maths degree which is where he is strongest academically.

I'm sure the uni would be only too happy to keep him (and his fees) and enrol him onto the first year of a maths degree as he has already proven he can excel at that subject.

Edited to add: I say this as the mother of a son who failed year 1 of an engineering degree and switched to a different subject which he could easily cope with. Engineering is really hard (so is Maths but not to him it seems).

Of course he would have to wait till the resit period to have a resit marked?

@PocketSand There have been some very harsh responses on here. I don't think some of the posters realise how difficult it is for ND students.

Is there any way that you can gently communicate to him that it isn't a failure to ask for help? Maybe use some analogies to illustrate this - I wear glasses because I'm short sighted, someone with hearing difficulties uses a hearing aid etc?

Re the laptop - I'm surprised your DS didn't already have one for A levels. What did he use to acces the school's online VLE and do is homework on? DD couldn't have done her A levels without a laptop.

Hi OP, there is some good practical advice on this thread but also a couple of themes coming through that a) he needs to work out what he wants and b) you need to support him learning how to get there. I was concerned about your comment about how you’re hoping that if he does undergrad masters and PhD then his brain will have matured and he’ll be more ready for presumably employment. Yes, developmental disorders such as autism adhd etc don’t mean that people can’t develop just that it might take longer (and some more than others), BUT most development is stimulated by experiences and doesn’t just happen because they are older. (I’ve studied this at M-level at RG uni if that helps you believe me). You just sound very resistant to the idea that uni is about anything other than academic learning. I’d be really concerned about him just developing academically which is even more of a risk if he’s living at home. Does he do any paid work or even volunteering to help him develop socially? It sounds like he’s generally good academically but for life he needs to learn all the other things people are taking about. Help him reflect on what went wrong , model researching his options , basically help but don’t rescue because that’s the last thing he needs from you! (Speaking from experience as a mother and uni lecturer)

@DontWheeshtMe Thanks for your response. I will ask and find out about options from Disability Support today. I have asked him to authorise communication with me.

@JamesWebbSpaceTelescope Yes it is lab reports that he struggles with in terms of presentation. He wants to work in the automobile industry when qualified.

@Teenytwo DS2 is in denial. He can't believe that a single lab report from February can prevent him from progressing into year 2. He wants to ignore everything and tries to convince hsmself that everything's OK because he has received emails about next years timetable. He wants me to try and sort it.

I will be asking about options to resit the one aspect he failed, repeating the whole year - which I think would be best if he insists on sticking with engineering so that he can restart with support in place and back on his meds - or transferring to a different course.

If he didn't receive any feedback that's totally different @PocketSand and definitely grounds for a complaint! Timely feedback before resubmission is really basic and in my uni would be considered grounds for a complaint if you didn't get any.

A reasonable adjustment specifically for your DS could also be that he gets feedback in a particular style, for example short, workable points for improvement rather than long paragraphs (or whatever works). Another one could be that he has a specific trusted person as his personal tutor to help him interpret feedback. I'm sure you already know what helps, just reassuring you that these would be reasonable to expect.

I used to work as a private tutor with some uni students to help them interpret their feedback as they struggled with their tutor's feedback. Another option might be, if your DS could find a tutor or coach he trusts, that he could work with them? I know he doesn't need a tutor from the raw ability side (especially if he switches to maths) so maybe framing it as coaching in the soft skills would make more sense. There are some people who work as peer support coaches as well. I hope he finds a way to get the support and education that he deserves!

The uni should have marked it within 28 working days so he would have known the mark after that or the uni would have to get in touch about it taking longer to mark . He's extremely lucky to have got 2 extra attempts after that although I presume they'd be capped at 40 ( again he would have been told this ) or at least this was the case at the 2 unis I went to for my undergrad and masters . I'm waiting for an autism assessment ( actually on the advice of my uni lecturers for my masters) but regardless of whatever the uni did or didn't do your son also needs to accept that some of this year is his own fault . I lived with someone who got kicked out of uni twice and he blamed everyone but wouldn't get up for the lectures or engage with uni support and for him now he has no trust in education but also is paying back 2 years of student finance he didn't need and if he goes back to uni he'll only be funded for 2 years .
its worth having a discussion with your son if this is the course he really wants or if he'd prefer something more academic.

@pettingzoo He has a 100% attendance record and completes all his homework. It's just that he seems not to understand that independent study is required - I have tried to explain this to him countless times but he thinks he will be taught all he needs to know in lectures and seminars.

@Genevieva this is exactly what I have been saying to him!

@MyDogHumpsThings As he was off his high dose ADHD meds for the first and second terms I think he won't have taken in anything relating to organisation at the start of the course - hence not knowing which staff to approach and I don't think he's even aware that office hours exist! It's annoying that everything is online and I don't have access to check he has understood what he needs to.

Unfortunately his experience with school has not helped - teachers wanted him not to ask for help so they could record progress/take it off his targets so he negative associations with asking for help even when he recognises that he needs it.

@Notanothernamechange25 DS2 has attended every support session provided. Unfortunately the sessions have not been provided for one of the tutors despite him emailing (on my insistence) multiple times. A single session was finally set up at the end of the third term!

@SockFluffInTheBath The only email he has received says that he has not met the requirements to continue to year two and needs to resit certain assessments. He has passed all his other resits and only found out yesterday about failing the lab report so he is still waiting to hear from the uni.

Totally agree. The son has to take some responsibility even if the uni did let him down academically or pastorally, which it sounds like they did.

My son was allowed to continue into year 2 of an Engineering degree but he just dropped out half way through as the issues that made him fail a module in his first year did not get properly resolved by him or the uni. Year 2 just got harder with more assignments, more pressure etc.

This meant he could only get 2 years of uni funded so we had to pay for the whole of his 1st year on an alternative course. This is why I keep saying it's very important to think about whether he would be better off just accepting that Engineering isn't for him and switch to a subject he knows he can manage like Maths. As far as student finance is concerned, you are only allowed one "gift year" in which to make a mistake.

Not within 28 days if the submission platform hadn’t opened. 28 days from the submission date, usually.

I would be very surprised if there was an ad hoc marking for a repeat submission of work that was a summative assessment used to determine progression.

Don’t you have a computer at home or a phone that he could sit beside you and access the portal and show you?

Not being funny, but you’re using a device to post here.

you could sit him down and use that same device to access his emails and learning portal, with his permission and while he sits beside you.

@viques It is extremely insulting to suggest that I expected his difficulties to miraculously disappear when I have been his advocate from pre-school to 6th form and have had to be extremely active to get him the support he needs, including Tribunal to make sure his EHCP was properly specified and quantified. Unfortunately universities don't allow parents to advocate in the same way and expect students to advocate for themselves and I had no option but to rely on Disability Support to take over.

@MumWifeOther that's good advice. I can get a letter from the GP listing when prescription ceased and were then restarted.

@LacStCharles sorry you have had a similar experience but thank you for understanding the reality is not always as advertised or assumed by those with no experience.

@SisterMidnight77 thank you for your very helpful and understanding post. It is encouraging that all is not necessary lost.

@LIZS DSA have authorised 2 hours of support each week of the academic year. I'll see if a foundation year is suggested.

@2morrowiscancelled DS2 has been provided with a laptop now with specialist software for his disabilities so a moot point. All assignments are completed online. The academic staff are not named and do not sign anything.

@MMUmum I have extensive experience of university in the humanities but not in engineering. I also emphasised over and over again the importance of independent study and seeking and engaging with support. It made zero difference.

@FortyDegreeDay He still had his EHCP at 6th form and I was actively involved with the SENCO. Academically he did well with Astars and A in maths, physics and further maths. He's been extensively assessed (GOSH) and there is nothing else going on apart from autism and ADHD.

@Onelovelyone thanks for the advice. I don't know if he has a support profile or if there is writing support available. I'll find out. I am going to request that I am added as advocate.

Retired Engineering lecturer here. I think moving to maths is the best idea. Engineering degrees involve a high degree of collaboration and group work which students who find it hard to engage with the course and their fellow students inevitably struggle with. I would imagine that the lab report that has been failed was a group experiment, did he discuss the results with the other students in the group? They could have given him the data that was missing from his later attempts. Failing a lab report twice is extremely unusual, a bare pass needs little more than getting the structure right and writing something in most sections, plus submitting the data with an attempt at analysis. Without the data you can’t really pass, unfortunately. A laptop or desktop computer is essential for engineering; so essential that in happier times we used to give all our first years a laptop with all the software they needed.

He has a 100% attendance record and completes all his homework. It's just that he seems not to understand that independent study is required - I have tried to explain this to him countless times but he thinks he will be taught all he needs to know in lectures and seminars.

Did his school not teach independent study? Or was that he was gifted at maths & physics and didn’t need to study beyond what they were taught in class?

There have been some very harsh responses on here. I don't think some of the posters realise how difficult it is for ND students.

I agree and I find it strange that a couple of ND people on this thread have also been quite harsh. Some of them obviously worked extremely hard and managed everything by themselves without parental support at university stage. That does not mean that everyone has the same capabilities. It does not mean that it’s OP’s fault because she didn’t train her DS properly from an early age, which seems to be one of the implications here. These are spectrum conditions and I thought that ND people, more than anyone else, would understand that.