Son not allowed to continue to second year at uni

[PocketSand]

DS2 has just completed his first year in an engineering degree. His results are all over the place from 1st in maths to 2:2 to required resits. He exceeded the A level grade requirements for MEng. He is autistic and has ADHD. He was un medicated prior to and during most of his first year due to shortages followed by referral to cardiology.

His DSA support didn't start til the spring term and one support worker provided 1 hour support when 30 hours was approved. He constantly tells the one he has seen that everything is fine and they believe him.

He always says everything is fine and doesn't ask for help. He has never been to the library and relies totally on lecture notes. He doesn't know what independent study is. I have always been his advocate but now he is expected to advocate for himself. No one at the uni knows these issues - he has not even contacted his personal tutor let alone disability services and just thinks he needs to work harder.

He found out today that he has failed his third submission of a lab report he initially submitted in February. He did not have DSA agreed support at that time so he didn’t have his own laptop. He borrowed another student’s at the time but when he had to resubmit no longer had access to his results and so he tried to cobble together a report using specimen (and maybe someone else’s results - not clear). He had previously received an email saying he couldn’t proceed unless he passed resubmission. I assume that’s where we are at now.

His feedback is harsh - shouldn’t study for a degree if not prepared to use feedback to improve his work. Trouble is he often doesn’t understand the feedback and he is unwilling to ask for clarification as he fears tutor’s anger. He says he doesn’t know who marked the work so doesn’t know who to talk to and seems generally clueless about most administrative issues.

I feel completely in the dark and don’t know where to go from here. Obviously I don’t want to just give up and accept his journey ends here as it seems very unfair but don’t know what I can do to try and enable him to fix this or if it can be fixed.

Can anyone who knows the system provide advice on next steps please?

Maybe he isn't well suited to university? Lots of people aren't, there are other better and cheaper paths to well paying jobs.

At 6th form his teachers at a specialist maths college said he should apply to Oxbridge to study maths. He ignored them. I think he could easily cope with a maths degree and then maybe a masters and PhD.

I'm not convinced this is the solution you hope for. How is he going to live independently? And what will he do with a Masters and Doctorate without the communication skills?

But.

I feel I'm getting sucked in to the problem-solving game with you. It doesn't matter what you or me think. What does he think? What does he want? What is deterring you from answering this question?

The big question is what he would like to do next?

does he still want to continue doing a Uni degree at all?

it may actually be a blessing in disguise that he was not allowed to continue. My son was allowed to resit his first year in engineering, then struggled through only to come out with 10 credits short of graduating, he is totally burnt out with it and unable to contemplate how to get these last credits, so accepted his Diploma of Higher Education and looks like he may have found a job/project to do

May be better for your son to take a year out to get a bit of work experience and then maybe try again (maybe maths) year after.

my son should definitely have either switched to maths or quit uni after thst first year. He was stubborn about continuing though and also stubborn about not asking for help.

sounds like our boys are a similar mould… but we are a few years further down the line and possibly made some wrong turns along the way…

best of luck, I hope your son is ok and can find some time and headspace about what he could do next

His autism and adhd won’t be counted as extenuating circumstances because they were known before.

Extenuating circumstances in OPs sons case would have to be date specific, with evidence. They would have to relate to why on three occasions his piece of work didn’t pass. ( if that’s the only issue here )

The Uni can look over an appeal and offer suggestions but only in terms of advising on procedure and whether he’s answered all required areas. They don’t advice on what to write and will not advice on whether the information given is sufficient to get through the appeal.

to be honest is uni the best option as at the moment he seems to be trying to do a full detailed assignments etc at the 11th hour

I agree

with the level of support he needs he’s not going to cope with living independently at Oxbridge. Why do you want him to have a masters and a PhD? Why is that so important to you?

People on this thread being very unfair (and ableist!). Your son sounds super bright and I think you should make him switch to a Maths degree and start afresh. He sounds a bit like my brother who also has a Maths-genius type of brain. He's now super successful working for a tech giant.

Sadly there are a lot of people replying who clearly have no understanding of ND teens or the struggles they face. At 18 an ND teenager can be 3 years behind their peers in emotional maturity. What do people suggest they do? Wait 3 years before they go to uni? No, what they need is proper support and for people not to say 'you're an adult now, you're on your own ,work it out'.

Struggling to ask for help is as typical as it gets for an ND kid, especially when they don't trust the person they're expected to ask for help to respond positively - ds is the same. But he's now doing a degree apprenticeship where he is so well supported that suddenly he has no problem discussing any issues he has with his fantastic boss. He absolutely loves it, but it's software engineering rather than engineering. Your DS needs tutors he likes and can trust if he is going to be able to ask for help IMO. Sadly his tutor sounds like an arsehole.

The library might be completely overwhelming to him OP, has he been shown round at all? It sounds like he really could do with someone to take him around and show him how it all works on a 1;1 basis to help him really take it all in - I wonder if thee are any 2nd or 3rd year student volunteers that help ND students with this sort of thing?

He also really needs help with planning his study and his assignments and revision. I would recommend you help him with that as much as you can if he does go back OP, helping him structure his days and keep on top of what he needs to do. ND kids need someone to teach them how to do all this and it's probably something you could help him with a lot. DS did an EPQ and had to do an NEA during his A-levels and I taught him as much as I could during those about researching and writing in a way suitable for uni.

What uni is he at OP, in my experience of (just) visiting unis many care about their research much more than they care about teaching their students. I found generally the ex-poly's were much more student centred than the RG's. The difference between Southampton/Exeter and Surrey for example (for comp sci) was stark in this respect.

I think you definitely need to get a lot more involved OP if he will let you - don't listen to people who say 'oh he's an adult, you need to step back and let him work it out for himself' - those people are clueless about what works for ND teens.

What I do think he now needs to consider is if engineering is for him. If he still really wants to continue then he need to decide if he wants to continue here or go somewhere else. He might be better off living away at a uni that is much more supportive - but with you keeping up with everything he's doing, his deadlines etc and being much more involved (if he'll let you). Or he could change to another course either at this uni or another one. Does he still see himself working as an engineer at the end of it? Do you think it's a role that would work for him?

I definitely don't think he should just decide uni isn't for him just on this one bad year. I also don't think engineering apprenticeship are necessarily the answer - they are generally hugely, hugely competitive and he may not stand much chance straight off the back of a failed year at uni.

I do think once he gets settled he also needs to start thinking more about what is going to happen at the end of his degree. To get a job he is going to need to stand out from the thousands of other students doing engineering that finish at the same time as him. That really means getting involved with societies and eventually taking leadership roles, having a part time job, relevant volunteering perhaps something through university - maybe even helping other ND students - that sort of thing. I talked a lot about this with DS when he was planning on going to uni because a degree is just not enough to get a job now.

Good luck OP! I really hope he gets loads of support and finds a path that works for him.

@LBOCS2 ha - I have never sought a diagnosis but suspect I am ADHD - I wrote 12 essays in 14 days in the third year of my degree and got a first for all of them. DS2 is also autistic and doesn’t work with pressure in the same way. He’s back on his meds now so better but still autistic. I don’t yet know if he can repeat the year but this seems extreme for failing one lab report.

@AngryBookwormthis is why I am thinking his choice of engineering was misguided. If he studied a course that played to his strengths where he did not have to ask for help (this ship sailed long ago) he may be OK.

@JudeyJudeyhe wants to do engineering. I don’t think you realise how stubborn, against all reason, an autistic young person can be. Any laptop I bought him would remain unused unless someone else, like a DSA support worker, said it was needed. Then it might be used. I think they should have sympathy with me if anything!

@Tippertapperfeetof course I did a DSA application at the outset. Please read previous posts.

@WiddlinDiddlin well apparently despite being autistic all his problems at primary school boiled down to him not asking for the help he needs from the relevant people. Was he not cut out for primary school? Or is he autistic?

I’d strongly suggest looking into a different course. Engineering is a course - and career - that requires strong organisation, management, team work, etc. I remember first year being the easy year, lulling me into a false sense of security then it really ramped up hard! I’m a structural engineer, and I think mechanical engineering is a more intense course.

It’s also a career where you need to be proactive. And it doesn’t end at graduation. I’m 10 years into my career and I still need to ask questions, liaise with colleagues who have different skill sets, bring together information, identify gaps in knowledge, plan tasks, manage tasks and mentor junior team members. And I’m still not an ‘experienced’ team member so I expect to be asking questions for many years!

would he be up for resitting the year whilst keeping the results for the modules he already has *(those he passed) and resitting the others while he gets disability support in place? If so, you could ask the University to make a reasonable adjustment to that effect. Depending on circumstances (i.e. why did he only get 1 hour of 30 recommended) the university should waive the fees for the resit- either as another straight forward Reasonable Adjustment or on the basis that they failed to make them the first time. He may need to commit to getting appropriate support either way. Academic standards are not subject to RA's but administrative procedure is. If he wants to continue, this may be the best way. Going into the 2nd year when things start to count towards his degree without sorting this stuff out won't be any good for him. Another option is to leave, and then wait till he's ready and apply again (there or somewhere else). Last time I checked the Student Finance Office would fund 4 years - so he can regroup and go again and he would still have the 3 years of funding. If he went for the half resit he should still be able to get funding for living costs (and fees if they're charged) Best of luck!! feel free to DM me if you want to - i've been here.

Actually he didn't do A-level comp sci did he OP? IME software engineering is the perfect role for kids with ASD. I'd highly recommend that route if he did. But a maths degree could be a great way in too - DS's apprenticeship currently looking for maths PhDers to work in quantum computing!

@Sue763 - "... At 18 an ND teenager can be 3 years behind their peers in emotional maturity. What do people suggest they do? Wait 3 years before they go to uni? No, what they need is proper support and for people not to say 'you're an adult now, you're on your own ,work it out'. "

Is it not possible that the correct approach from the POV of the ND teenager would be to postpone uni for three years?

What good does it do them to go to uni when they may not be sufficiently mature to benefit from it?

He hasn’t been offered that though
Unis make offers or
Fail them

Also been there with two of mine would you believe
One was offered to redo parts of the year he failed….despite a personal horrifying experience as an extenuating circumstance.
The other ( his twin ) failed the year after not submitting a non marked piece just to do a CV. Despite his extenuating circumstance supporting his twin re the horrifying experience and suffering from ( diagnosed and medicated ) depression. He went through the appeal process for nearly six months to no avail.

The second took a year out and reaplied again. Same Uni. Got in.

So If they fail they have to appeal that decision and be extremely precise and accurate with evidence

From what you've said it sounds like he's not capable of studying at university level in a face to face setting. It doesn't mean he can't get a degree though. Someone else said the Open University, that may be better suited for him and you can still get student finance.

I work in HE and this feels difficult as it's hard to tell if the university could have supported him better or if the support was there and he simply didn't engage with it. Unfortunately there are often cases were students are offered extensive support but they just don't take it up no matter what, and in those circumstances the university can't really be blamed. He can talk to disability services and student support services, but usually once the student has failed unless there are extreme extenuating circumstances to explain why the student didn't ask for help or notify about a disability/illness/bereavement/whatever that might have affected their performance, it isn't possible to change grades/allow another resit etc.

Nb My second son above also has autism.

@BeltaLodaLife Sorry, why didn’t he have his own laptop? That’s sort of your job to provide. Everyone else has one, either parent funded or funded by working. Why would you send your kid off to uni with no laptop?

No, not everyone has, or needs, a laptop. That's why the university libraries have computers. They are free to use.

If a student wants a laptop, what normally happens is that they buy their own computer. I've always bought my own computers. Why do I need mummy or daddy to buy my computer? That sounds juvenile and definitely wouldn't be the norm, as a university student would be more than capable of paying for, and obtaining, their own computer.

I completed my final year in university without my own computer. All work was done on the library computers.

First thing is contact the uni, and get your son to give permission for you to talk to them. I think you may not have the full picture of what has happened. I would find out from the university what his options are. He may be allowed to continue on the second year of a maths degree if he has done well in those modules and has not got in well with lab work.

I should have thought that SUPPORT WITH COMMUNICATION is the first thing an Uni will do for autistic people. They are failing him, not him himself.

@PocketSand if you did it all from the beginning, why didn’t you get permission for you to speak on his behalf from the start? And yes, that can be done.

has he plagiarised? Coz if he has done that (using someone else’s results) that’s going to be a hard one to get over.

And again. what does he want to do?

You say you’ve always been his advocate.

It’s time for him to learn to do it himself. Don’t pick up after him don’t ring whoever at the university.

He is an adult. Yes he has a disability but he is actively choosing to ignore support offered.

He needs to start doing things for himself. He needs to decide what to do now. You can support him in this - but don’t do it for him.

He will not have failed the first year on just one lab report. He will be given options to resit or restart.

No, because if they have the right support then they don't need to.

DS is 19 and doing a degree apprenticeship. If you'd known him at school (no friends, never spoke in some of his lessons, difficulty coping in noisy, crowded environments, very shy with people he doesn't know, finds it very difficult to ask for help) then you would say that maybe it would be best he didn't go to uni for 3 years.

But his degree apprenticeship is brilliant. He is a fantastic programmer and with the right people around him he is now thriving. He has friends, he works in a small team and it is perfect for him. He doesn't enjoy his degree as much but that's because he finds a lot of it boring and irrelevant to his job and the tutors not always very good at teaching/marking etc.

But if he hadn't gone to uni or done an apprenticeship at 18 what would he do instead for 3 years? Work in a shop? a pub? a coffee shop? all environments due to his ASD he would find almost impossible to cope with along with the overwhelm of constantly having to deal with people. He would not want to travel, he doesn't like constant change. So what would he do? Sit at home and play computer games for 3 years? That would be terrible. He didn't need to not do anything for 3 years, he just needed some kindness and a supportive environment so he could thrive.

They don’t force students to engage with it though. It is offered however.
Theres also student support services for disabled students aswell. They have to go there and ask for it though.
Along with more time to submit work ( a certain number / year )
More time in exams
etc
All Based on a students needs