University choices - the best of the 'rest'

[SlightlyJaded]

I was on the A level results thread last year and anyone who was on it will have seen our experience. DD predicted all As was completely blindsided by terrible results. We were all shocked as was her school. As a result, she missed her first choice and her insurance choice - it was bloody awful and clearing was a very much a scramble. She is ok-ish now, but still hurting and feeling the fallout...

DS is in his A level year now and we've done a few Uni tours and he is trying to get focussed on his UCAS, finishing his personal statement and whatnot. But having witnessed what his sister went through, he is wondering about going for a much 'easier' insurance option than she did. Her choices needed AAA (first) and AAB (insurance) and he is now saying he doesn't want to be aspirational at all with his insurance as he'd rather know he had something if he fucks up.

I don't think he will fuck up, but I sort of get his logic. He is leaning towards a solid/Russell Group first choice that will need AAA/AAB and then one of the city 'second' tier options: MMU / Nottingham Trent / Leeds Beckett etc. He is keen to do Northern City but not wedded to it.

Is this a silly idea? From experience, he would be more likely to get one of these in clearing I think so maybe should stick with more aspirational for insurance? But again, he doesn't like uncertainty so I get where he is coming from.

His predicted grades are still moving a bit but broadly AAB - possibly ABB. He is smart but not A A A* academic.

I want to advise him well but just not sure. And if anyone has good experience/recommendations of that second tier, I'd love to hear them? I don't mean the non-RG ones that everyone knows are amazing: St Andrews etc, more the genuinely 'lesser regarded' ones that are still pretty good.

Thank you!

I’ve just looked and OB has the highest percentage (24%) of privately educated educated students (posh in my book-that doesn’t mean I don’t like them, just means they’re (usually) wealthy). It’s the lowest ranked university with a high percentage of privately educated students. In fact it has a higher percentage of privately educated students than University of Oxford. I imagine that’s where my impression comes from.

I think this is excellent advice.

And this is current data. Unfortunately Tizer or fizz lady only says stuff that's about 40 yrs out of date.

@breadlinecarrots You have articulated my thoughts without me even knowing they are my thoughts. In my heart of hearts, I don't think he is going to get the grades for Manchester or Leeds and much as I don't want him to 'waste' his insurance on somewhere asking for lower grades than he expects, I equally don't want him to 'waste' his first choice on something that is unlikely to come good meaning his low insurance is really the most likely outcome.

I wonder if he would consider Nottingham, Lancaster or Liverpool as first choices (who might let a grade slip on the day) and then put one of the ex-Poly Unis as insurance? I don't know if that will be a bit a dream crusher for him, but we still have some visits to do so that might focus him. Ultimately it's up to him and I won't force feed him my opinion, but the point of me coming here was to form a 'best scenario' in my head so that when he asks me - and he will - I can advise him well.

Ignoring poodles, who is just plain rude, a minority is clearly a minority. Who the f cares about who goes to an ex poly? Just students I think.

From where I’m standing, 24% is less than 1/4. That makes over 3/4 state educated! They are the majority in any language. Your impression is demonstrably wrong. And what wrong with privately educated dc? Are they just too awful to contemplate? This hatred is very very stupid and doesn’t help society move forward. Also privately educated includes bursary dc and parents working hard to get fees together. Dislike of them is just nasty.

Oxford No books is very popular with the non academic from dds private school.

I'm being mean calling it that because tbh I think it's a great choice for dcs who aren't that academic and Oxford itself is lovely

I said very clearly in my post that there is no dislike. Why you have chosen to ignore that and instead go on this rant is something only you can answer.

You forget, or rather you haven't yet caught onto the fact that UK colleges and universities are now quite populated by non-UK educated students.

You only had to look at the website to learn OB have over 2700 foreign students.

Come and join us all in the 21st century.

Oxford Brookes rejected me, I don't hold any bitterness 30 years on.

I don't get this obsession with RG universities, find a course they want at the place they want.

As for offers DD needed ABB, clearing was BBC, but still needed a science at B (a very broad definition of science)

Liverpool is who I had in mind when posting - will definitely let a couple of grades slip for humanities subjects according to a Reliable Source. (not great for last minute accommodation though)

But I am guessing he's still at the picking what to put on the UCAS form stage and has a while to think about it? FWIW Lancaster, Leicester, UEA all still have history places in Clearing now, and are reasonably well ranked for the subject and student experience.

Also, FWIW DS1 applied with good but not stellar grades in hand to 5 highly competitive courses/unis all but one of which had published offers one or two grades higher than his actuals. He got unconditional offers from all of them. I suppose a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

He's very happy with where he's going and its excellent but he'd discounted a couple of even higher entry places - and I now half wish I'd encouraged him to put one in the mix, just to see. I would say don't aim too low, OP.

DS had Loughborough as his first choice, but didn't quite get the grades, so ended up going to Nottingham Trent which was his insurance choice. He did really well there, graduating in 2018 with a First in Computer Science.

When it's time to make the choice, I'd sit with him and have a look at what has historically been in Clearing for his subjects so he can understand that he really does have options if he drops a lot.

But he's not there yet because he doesn't have offers. Using my examples, Manchester may not offer him a place and his options might be Newcastle and MMU, in which case you don't need to have a conversation at all - he firms Newcastle and MMU is insurance.

You might need to have a really hard conversation with him that's a bit of a 'dream crusher' but you might not - I wouldn't worry about that at this stage.

Factor in too @SlightlyJaded your DS will have seen first-hand the effect not getting into her first choice had on his sister. No doubt he’ll do what he can to avoid being in the same situation come results day. With an excellent set of GCSE results and the motivation to avoid the same happening to him I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with very good A levels. Aim high for his aspirational, have a great insurance in hand and keep open-minded when clearing opens. There were some brilliant universities with places this year.

Thanks all. This thread has helped enormously. Perhaps it might help someone else who finds themselves in the very NORMAL position of not having a guaranteed A* student.

My DC are state educated but a lot of their friends went private for secondary and sixth form, and I think it's hard to be positive about some very good Unis when everyone else is almost guaranteed to be going to a top ten RG.

Of course DS need conditional offers first, but this has helped me think about what might be a sensible - but still aspirational - route.

I'll keep updating just in case it helps anyone else.

One of mine was not an A student and he went to Swansea. Absolutely loved it, ended up doing a masters at Loughborough and now has a great job. I don't think I've ever heard anyone who went there badmouth it tbh. If you apply and they make you an offer they will usually revisit it in clearing if you don't select them (this is what they told my most recent dc).

Also consider that if he does very well to look at clearing on results day to see if there are opportunities to trade up to uni with better reputation (used to be called adjustment) I suspect thats what many people were doing this year - or take a year out and apply grades in hand (even if they are slightly below the standard offer).

Some really good Universities were in clearing the last couple of years for A results

I'm pretty sure you can't do this now - it's breaking a contract with the uni whose offer you accepted.

Sorry quoted wrong person!!

What @Piggywaspushed ?

I meant to quote the trading up comment, not yours!

Sorry!

Ah! Thanks.

You can trade up. You just reject your offers and put yourself into clearing.

@SlightlyJaded the other thing which you are probably aware of is University offers aren't always what is on a Uni's website. For DC2 their Bristol offer came in at ABB, lower than Bristol's standard offer AAB, while Newcastle offer was at AAB - higher than the standard offer of ABB. DC therefore had Bristol as their insurance which wasn't what they had expected when filling in UCAS.

My advice to our two DC was to spread the risk; and have a couple of aspirational places - you may not get either of these - a couple of achievable and one lower. By the time it comes to May just before A Levels they will be in a better position to gauge what is appropriate to firm and insure.