University choices - the best of the 'rest'

[SlightlyJaded]

I was on the A level results thread last year and anyone who was on it will have seen our experience. DD predicted all As was completely blindsided by terrible results. We were all shocked as was her school. As a result, she missed her first choice and her insurance choice - it was bloody awful and clearing was a very much a scramble. She is ok-ish now, but still hurting and feeling the fallout...

DS is in his A level year now and we've done a few Uni tours and he is trying to get focussed on his UCAS, finishing his personal statement and whatnot. But having witnessed what his sister went through, he is wondering about going for a much 'easier' insurance option than she did. Her choices needed AAA (first) and AAB (insurance) and he is now saying he doesn't want to be aspirational at all with his insurance as he'd rather know he had something if he fucks up.

I don't think he will fuck up, but I sort of get his logic. He is leaning towards a solid/Russell Group first choice that will need AAA/AAB and then one of the city 'second' tier options: MMU / Nottingham Trent / Leeds Beckett etc. He is keen to do Northern City but not wedded to it.

Is this a silly idea? From experience, he would be more likely to get one of these in clearing I think so maybe should stick with more aspirational for insurance? But again, he doesn't like uncertainty so I get where he is coming from.

His predicted grades are still moving a bit but broadly AAB - possibly ABB. He is smart but not A A A* academic.

I want to advise him well but just not sure. And if anyone has good experience/recommendations of that second tier, I'd love to hear them? I don't mean the non-RG ones that everyone knows are amazing: St Andrews etc, more the genuinely 'lesser regarded' ones that are still pretty good.

Thank you!

I personally think it's sensible.

This happened to us too. DD1 missed her firm and her insurance (this was 11 years ago now) and ended up at a post-1992 uni through Clearing. She did very well, was happy, got a first and is now a successful post-doc microbiologist working at Harvard in the US (we're from the UK). But..... she still always talks about how she 'didn't get into uni' (her words!).

Due to this, DD2 played it very safe and went for two good but non RG unis. Her required entry grades were BBB. She achieved A star AA and ended up in adjustment (as it was then). But did end up taking her firm as I urged her to think about why she'd liked it so much and firmed it in The first place and not to rush into accepting an Adjustment place.

It's difficult though and hard to know what to do for the best. I wish both your children the very best.

@SlightlyJaded At DD2’s school, Oxford Brooks was a popular insurance. Similar - ex poly. Great student location.

My other ideas would be Reading, UEA and Surrey. Ok - not Northern but good solid choices. This would depend on course though. He sounds like he wants a city so stick with that. There are different levels within RG too. They don’t all want the same A level grades. Again - depends on course. What does he want to study and how competitive is it? Also be realistic about his top choice. Are there very similar courses asking for one grade lower?

His sister isn’t him either! Two different people. What happened to her is not guaranteed to happen to him so some bravery is needed and self belief. Some dc get better results - not worse.

It depends what he wants to study.

Some of the "mid- tier" good non RGs are better for some subjects than RG.

I'd maybe use one choice that way if there's somewhere he really likes. Conventional wisdom suggests that's what you should do. And it would spare the nerves of clearing.

But this year I have on gossip from a good authority that several RGs are taking people who have missed offers by 2-3 grades. Depends on the course, but some courses are just not recruiting to capacity. They don't lower their published offers though, as the messaging would be all wrong.

Nottingham had some astonishingly low clearing requirements... 3 x B for vet med for example.

What does he want to study and is it a course that tends to have places in Clearing each year? Whilst relying on a specific university having a specific course in clearing is a risky strategy, it might give him some reassurance that there is a '3rd Choice' if needed.

Thank you.

He is hoping to do History or History with Politics. Most universities seem to offer HwP so that hasn't helped him narrow it down much. I loved UEA and DD was offered it when she flunked last year, but much as my heart was bursting for her to accept the offer, she didn't want to be out in East Anglia whilst most of her friends were at Manchester and Leeds. She ended up at MMU and is reasonably happy there.

He IS a different beast and less wedded to North - we've looked at Bristol / Bath / Exeter - but I am mindful that he needs a bit of a push socially, so I think he will do better in or near a lively city.

Sometimes the issue with insurance and clearing is space in halls. Have they got space for insurance/clearing students? I’d rather get first choice spot on. DD was insurance and getting accommodation was a problem. Maybe as international students are not here in such large numbers, this might have resolved itself.

Exactly. Clearing offers were mega low for a fair few things. They won't publish lower grades in the prospectus as it affects the PR.

@SlightlyJaded Those 3 are pretty competitive! What about Sheffield, Liverpool, Leeds or Newcastle? Might be more wriggle room? All great uni cities.

Brighton seem to take anyone...niece is doing film course and got rubbish results. Accommodation halls are mega ££££s though.

I don't think Bath offers any History whatsoever. Politics yes.

Definitely open - and would love specific recoomendations that go beyond the league tables. I cited those three as I know something about them - DD at MMU and friends at Leeds Beckett and Nottingham Trent. Would love to know which others to suggest to DS as insurance options if he decides to go that route...

Lancaster is top ten ranking. It’s a fantastic university. Dd turned down her Durham offer and instead put lancaster first after an inspiring politics open day. She’s completely loving it. They guarantee accommodation on campus for first years and the grades required are lowered if you put them as first choice to ABB for history and politics. It really helped her because she wasn’t under so much pressure. She doesn’t want to leave at the end of this year.

Nottingham definitely has taken at lower than offers this year for degrees such as History . Worth going to some open days and chatting to some students.
Last year ds spoke to a History student who was in third year -on track for a First with a PWC job lined up -whose entry grades were BBB.

History is less popular than Economics, Computer Science, Psychology currently, so choosing strategically for his insurance then he may still get his place if grades missed.
You can search on UCAS for accepted grades for each Uni course now, but bear in mind some offers may be contextual.
Lancaster, Sheffield worth looking at with regards this.

Would he consider going to NI? Queens in Belfast has an excellent history (and politics) department, and the grades required for students from outside of NI are lower than you would expect. It's a fantastic RG university with a great student life.
I ended up going there as missed the grades for Warwick, best thing I ever did.

"He is leaning towards a solid/Russell Group first choice that will need AAA/AAB and then one of the city 'second' tier options"

I think this is pretty smart thinking, since UCL research found that only 16% of students hit their predicted grades. Predicted grades are generally a best case scenario rather than an accurate forecast.

The problem comes when students, who have hung their hopes on getting their first choice and used that dream as fuel to get them through their A levels, then miss their first choice and are left with either an insurance choice in a completely different city, or a clearing option they may not have visited and might struggle to get accommodation in.

Newcastle/Northumbria would be a particularly good duo for this approach. The universities are right next to each other, so your DS would be living and hanging out in the same places, regardless of whether he got his firm or insurance.

The proximity has also created a healthy rivalry. Now the former poly is only a few places behind the Russell Group uni in the rankings and compares pretty favourably for student outcomes. Northumbria is still in clearing for History and Politics and the requirement is BBC, so a pretty safe bet.

If you were to consider Scotland, Glasgow/Strathclyde would also be a strong option for the same reasons as Newcastle/Northumbria.

I'd be looking at strong, just outside the Russell group but also not ex poly uni's, places like Reading, Leicester, Surrey, Sussex, Keele, Swansea, Royal Holloway, Essex and Kent. I would include UEA but i think you mentioned your DC was not keen on the location. All have solid reputations and would offer around BBB/BBC with maybe some flex on results day from some. Most of these are strong research uni's and have some internationally renowned departments, though I am not sure about history specifically.

UEA is actually rising in the ranks for History. Complete University Guide has them at 24 out of 91 places.

@SlightlyJaded What does he envisage doing with his degree? Employment might give a steer. It’s not easy for these grads to get grad level jobs due to intense completion. It can take a while - even from RG. So I’d also look at what else makes a good cv. Various young people we know thought their degree would get them a government policy job with no experience in any policy area.

Despite your DD's experience . I'd watch out for putting insurance offer too much lower than his capabilities. I have heard of people with all A star predictions or thereabouts missing that and having BBC unis as back up. I think somewhere asking ABB or maybe BBB would be wise (this could easily drop back on results day). Plenty of excellent unis ask for ABB or BB for history.

My DS does history (he's at Birmingham). The poplar back ups at around BBB are Sussex, UEA, Lincoln (genuinely very good for history - better than MMU and NTU) , Swansea, Cardiff, Newcastle (not as competitive as you'd think for entry) and have also heard of people getting into Nottingham on missed grades (great for history). Sheffield is excellent but a very highly regarded history course so I'm not sure much wiggle room on grades. Ditto Lancaster and Birmingham, which wasn't in clearing. I'd normally say Kent but it is axing lots of arts courses, sadly.

PS Leeds was mentioned upthread. That would normally be a first choice for history - very competitive entry. Ditto your ideas of Bristol and Exeter.

Don't know where your North stops but no need to look massively south - loads of brilliant history courses in the North!

I agree with your son. An insurance choice should be exactly that - insurance,

Everyone I know who went to Kent absolutely loved it there. Mine got into RG unis with lower than offered grades. Their offers were AAA, and they got in with AAB

I would look at the clearing offers before he makes decision. The prospectus will be very aspirational in grades, clearing shows how low they will go. There are also steps between the RG universities and the post 92's though grade difference and best option is quite course dependant