University choices - the best of the 'rest'

[SlightlyJaded]

I was on the A level results thread last year and anyone who was on it will have seen our experience. DD predicted all As was completely blindsided by terrible results. We were all shocked as was her school. As a result, she missed her first choice and her insurance choice - it was bloody awful and clearing was a very much a scramble. She is ok-ish now, but still hurting and feeling the fallout...

DS is in his A level year now and we've done a few Uni tours and he is trying to get focussed on his UCAS, finishing his personal statement and whatnot. But having witnessed what his sister went through, he is wondering about going for a much 'easier' insurance option than she did. Her choices needed AAA (first) and AAB (insurance) and he is now saying he doesn't want to be aspirational at all with his insurance as he'd rather know he had something if he fucks up.

I don't think he will fuck up, but I sort of get his logic. He is leaning towards a solid/Russell Group first choice that will need AAA/AAB and then one of the city 'second' tier options: MMU / Nottingham Trent / Leeds Beckett etc. He is keen to do Northern City but not wedded to it.

Is this a silly idea? From experience, he would be more likely to get one of these in clearing I think so maybe should stick with more aspirational for insurance? But again, he doesn't like uncertainty so I get where he is coming from.

His predicted grades are still moving a bit but broadly AAB - possibly ABB. He is smart but not A A A* academic.

I want to advise him well but just not sure. And if anyone has good experience/recommendations of that second tier, I'd love to hear them? I don't mean the non-RG ones that everyone knows are amazing: St Andrews etc, more the genuinely 'lesser regarded' ones that are still pretty good.

Thank you!

Newcastle has a very generous contextual offer scheme called PARTNERS which could be worth looking into. PP makes a good point re accommodation availability for insurance/clearing. Some have a Clearing accommodation guarantee, others allow insurance offer holders to book along with the firm offer holders. I’d factor this into your considerations.

@Zizanna I’d probably recommend that a graduate didn’t look at your organisation, with such a blinkered filter system.

Just to put some grade context in from someone currently reading history. DD2 got a star B and a shoker of a D in her best subject (history) two years ago . There was a medical reason for the latter but it meant that she also missed her offer and her insurance. She was taking a gap year for surgery anyway so reapplied grades in hand. She emailed admissions tutors and her head of history did a cracking reference to support her. She got unconditional offers from Nottingham, Holloway and Cardiff. She choose the former and doesn't have the lowest grades in her subject.

TBH if he likes it Nottingham might be worth considering as it is carrying a budget deficit so is probably looking to get more bums on seats and "cheaper" to run subjects like history are probably the easy way to get them.

Personally I think it’s helpful that people who recruit are so honest about their decision making process. There are so many parents and students who don’t understand this is how it can work in the top industries.

@Bluevelvetsofa , What filter would you recommend to ensure we recruit from the top shelf? Faced with hundreds of CVs with not much to differentiate except university, degree subject and grade?

You can of course recommend a graduate not to look at my organisation, but it’s dog eat dog out there for new grads so they don’t exactly call the shots.

Totally agree with this.
DS recruits graduates and interns in the international aerospace engineering company he works for. The top universities produce better grads in his field. They are more knowledgable, better able to think through complex systems, and have a better grasp of the subject. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone 🤷‍♀️

I totally get that and I can see where you are coming from. It's not the filter you use, but rather your condescending comment about OB students not getting into Oxford. Most students didn't get into Oxford including those from top ranked RG universities.

@TheJollyCoralEagle , I also would never have gotten into Oxford and I know OB students are not Oxford- rejects. I am also sure there are brilliant students coming out of OB. I think my attitude comes from the fact they are known at least in my workplace for putting just Uni of Oxford on their CV which is misleading.

They don't write about work experience on their CVs? Skills? Experience of managing people/budgets gained through participating in university clubs?

So a graduate from Oxford Brookes who was pro active in gaining work placements, has a brilliant reference from their placement employer, ran the student newspaper and got a first class degree will automatically lose out to someone at Oxbridge who did little with their time there?

I guess the mystery of GB's poor productivity is being solved though.

They do, but see this is very difficult to verify, so yes OB would have filtered out before we even got to look at whether they ran the student newspaper.

There is no problem with productivity in my organisation. We are doing really well 😉

To balance @ZIzanna the blue chip company I work for don't separate based on university attended. It's mainly an indicator of class rather than brains or work ethic and I thought most graduate recruiters did university blind recruitment for this reason. In my experience someone who is the first in their family to go to university (and so more likely to go to a less prestigious university due to not knowing that not every university is the same and wanting to save money by staying local) tends to be driven, hard working and willing to learn. Something not every privileged RG graduate is who was born expecting to go to university. And I say that as a privileged RG graduate myself.

@Zizanna as has been suggested, blind recruitment, plus a range of other things, including level of literacy, that would be relevant to banking.

I agree with you OP. DS's friend had chosen a very low ranking university as his insurance and then was not happy on results day. He managed to get a good offer on clearing but we wondered why he had chosen that university as insurance as he could have clearly got in on clearing if had wanted to.

I think maybe the best options are as others have suggested, Newcastle, Nottingham and Cardiff (my suggestion). They are all RG but have slipped slightly down the RG ranks over the years. All of them remain solid options and would be stronger for an academic subject like History, than any of the ex-polytechnics, despite many of those having risen in the ranks (generally) over the years.

I missed Liverpool off my earlier list and would definitely add that. Ticks loads of the boxes.

I think there have been two really important changes this year.

One is around transparency - UCAS somewhere have a thing on their site which shows the lowest grade accepted by that course at that uni - which in some (many?) cases will be significantly different from their published standard offer. In the past I have called the departments for my older kids to see what this was. It was very enlightening. The very top course/unis wont deviate much from their offer but others do. So I think you need to do your homework and be informed (much easier now with the UCAS thing).

The other is that this year many grades went south for clearing - seemingly explained by huge drop in international students - I cant see how this will reverse next year -- so be aspirational.

I am aware of blind recruitment, but my organisation currently don’t do this. For our graduate scheme we have close ties with some universities and actively approach students during networking events etc We only approach the top universities and not always the degrees you would assume Banks are looking for. I go for engineering grads over Economics for example…

From what I understand I think the UCAS tool has average grades for the last 4-5 years and could be very misleading. Some courses like CS in KCL not long ago wanted ABB which due to popularity then became AAA and now it's A star Astar A. So the UCAS lowest grade shown could be from that time or could be contextual or foreign students. When asked to show what offers home students are given and what the international they refused as they said it would harm their business model.

Thats interesting - I havent used it just heard about it.

Dont know if there is a record somewhere then of most recent clearing grades or if the uni wasnt in clearing what the lowest candidate accepted achieved.

Maybe back to the phones / emails to find out.

Thank you all so much

I've just had a look at Notts on UCAS and BBB was the lowest offer made for History with Politics and straight History, and BBC for for Ancient History . DS is deffo more into Modern History and Politics but worth him having that stat in the back of his head.

For those citing Universities like Nottingham and Cardiff for flexibility on results day - is your suggestion to put these as the insurance rather than a non RG Uni?

DD is the first in our family to even go to Uni so we are all a bit green.

For those citing Universities like Nottingham and Cardiff for flexibility on results day - is your suggestion to put these as the insurance rather than a non RG Uni?

I would suggest that yes.

Is he doing an EPQ? DD was offered AAA from a Russell Group for history and BBB from Swansea. The Russell Group actually added a caveat that if she got an A in her EPQ they’d lower her offer to BBB as well, which took her insurance off the table. I would certainly put in a solid non RG as number 5 choice. It takes the stress out of things.

I did a year at Manchester uni and hated it, changed to Keele University and absolutely loved it. Lovely small campus, but central for travelling to bigger cities like Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool for nights out.
You can do a dual honours degree which may suit him if he’s undecided between history and politics.
Not going to RG uni hasn’t held me back at all. Have a senior professional role in a very competitive industry and haven’t ever felt like a prospective employer has looked down on my choice of uni.
www.keele.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/undergraduatecourses/historyandpolitics/

Weren’t ucas going to start listing actual results accepted?

I think a lot depends on your DS and how confident he is. If there is a real risk he may not achieve his predicted grades then putting somewhere like Leicester, Hull, Keele may be a good option. However I would probably put somewhere down who may be more flexible on results day, like Liverpool or Nottingham.
i would definitely follow the PP advice and have him do an EPQ. An A in that gives him a lower offer at a lot of places and if he has a bad paper on exam day could make every difference to where he ends up.