Personal Statements to be Scrapped

[Xenia]

Might be of interest - Ucas scraps personal statements for university admissions
"Instead of a 4000-character statement, from next year applicants will be asked to answer three questions on why they want to study their chosen course and how they are prepared for it."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cger11kjk1jo

Can't get grade 8 without lots of money too.

What happens if you're applying for totally different courses?
Ds wants to apply for computer science for some and technical theatre for others! 🤣

@MargaretThursday you can write separate statements. Contact the Unis where he's applying and ask what they need. It's not uncommon !

@TizerorFizz
I don't think anyone is saying extra curricula pr activities aren't good for kids. It's obvious that they are. However kids who are disadvantaged have far less access to them and rather worrying about the dumbing down of advantaged kids it would be better to prioritize the 'clevering up' (😅) of disadvantaged kids.

It's extremely difficult to engage kids from the poorest backgrounds to engage in extracurricular activities even if the activities are free. You do not give the impression that you understand this.

Extra curricular activities have no place in university admissions unless they are very relevant. Even then allowances need to be made for children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Medical schools have mostly really tried to address this as they understand that not every child can get lots of work experience etc.

@Scumtastic They have access to some. I agree not everything but often there’s a way. I completely agree more dc need to participate. That’s why I gave a list of free activities. It’s clear some dc don’t want to do much and I would see engaging these pupils as a priority. Thats a much better attitude than saying it doesn’t matter. Exercise, taking part in society and making sure you satisfy your needs are vital for wellbeing. It’s not something to be sneered at.

I have family members who think work is all. You don’t do anything if you aren’t paid. No hobbies at all. Getting a job post uni hasn’t been difficult but none are doing a grad level job. RG Uni educated parents. So I’m not convinced non engagement makes you attractive re employment - eg environmental scientist couldn’t get a job in that. Anything on the cv making dc a credible candidate? No. Not saying hobbies help (eg singing) but something along the lines needed for employment might. Nothing done at school and nothing at uni. I can see why others get the jobs. This attitude gives me pause for thought as I don’t understand it.

Thsi is always an issue with UCAS and this new format highlights it more...

Sometimes you can write a generic one which covers a range of subjects, but in the case you cite - as per PP above- unis will advise!

I taught a girl who applied for history , and for nursing...

That's a a separate bit of UCAS.

Oh and entering competitions was just one example. It's not a requirement.

Plenty of students do have extenuating circumstances of some kind or otehr : the important thing to highlight is that some genuinely are disruptive to learning (eg young carers) and there re places on UCAS forms to declare these.

Can they put it on and describe how it has impacted them and given them additional sjlkills. It’s that the same if a referee does it.

Any truly extenuating circumstance doesn't need much elucidating.

For example, if a parent dies in A level years - no one should have to highlight that it gave them 'skills' . That's why it's kept separate.

Some students do mention things - for example, some mention backgrounds that have made them develop a desire to go into medicine, nursing, the law.

But really so many students are affected by something : it's not that unusual. Definitely, the school should be aware of anything that might adversely affect grades or access to education and educational opportunities. So, do make sure they are. Never assume.

Re the grade 8 music debate (which I accidentally kickstarted!) there is ALSO a separate place on UCAS for this , and speech and drama 'exams'. They get UCAS points. Mainly pretty useless but that is where they are revealed.

What gets additional UCAS and what doesn't (FA coaching badges...) is a whole different can of worms.

I think there was space for 3 lines of writing on my UCAS form in 1990. It required a brief list of activities, not even sentences, of things done that were related to the degree applied for. That felt a bit short back then, but the 4000 words that have been required recently just seems like massive overkill. I think having 3 short sections sounds ideal.

Most Unis have EC forms they ask you to fill in before starting.

@Piggywaspushed Useless for whom? Musicians? Barristers? Those needing confidence to give presentations? Or even students being better equipped to “perform” in front of others? Or just useless in life? Or uni? I don’t agree with either, Unis should encourage people with many talents and those who engage more fully in life. Do we choose medical students just based on A levels? Or would we prefer to be treated by someone who engaged with us? These students will have to engage at interview. Doing nothing beyond A levels isn’t helpful.

Useless in terms of the number of points they give...!

Nothing against the activities.

You really need to read things properly before you jump down people's throats.

@TizerorFizz You really want university places to go to kids with typical middle class/private school profiles, don't you? 🤣

Or is it just the "better" universities?

A key reason why students write about their extra-curriculars, rather than super-curriculars (subject related stuff) is because many have not engaged in anything subject related which is outside of their curriculum content. A key part of the reason for this, is that they are not genuinely interested in their subject so don’t just automatically do it.

Many of the students applying with great PS also aren’t actually that interested either, but they have been informed that this stuff helps thr PS so have done it.

I think schools and colleges do tell students…. But many just don’t hear the message or think the time until writing the pS is far longer than they imagine. It creeps up on them….and they’ve not done anything related to the course they’re interested in.

In the end, the PS does reveal that most students have little to say further about the subjects they want to study. However, most courses are recruiting - ie will offer to everyone who meets the standard offer requirement, and actually will then take many who miss the offer too. They need bums in seats. Few courses are actually selecting courses - where they have more applicants than they can offer to, given the stats about numbers who will firm/insure etc. it is these that use the PS more.

@CurlewKate I think there are too many unis, too many students go and too many don’t get value for money. That might be theirs or the tax payers. I don’t care who goes as long as we all benefit. High levels of disappointed students bears out we send too many. I’d prefer more jobs with day release.
@Piggywaspushed Sorry to disappoint you. I’m obviously now unable to read! I didn’t think you were clear.

“Unis should encourage people with many talents and those who engage more fully in life.“

Err no because that would exclude an awful
lot who have plenty to offer.

Define “engage more fully in life”. Why is many talents better than somebody who is more spikey or talented in one thing?

Also manydon’t engage fully in life because it’s a struggle for a variety of reasons. Why on earth should they not be encouraged by unis?

As a senior lecturer who currently reads every application for my course I don’t really think it will be that different from (a good) current personal statement.

i couldn’t care about extra curricular stuff so skim over any waffle surrounding that area and it’s a waste of characters as far as I’m concerned. I want in a personal statement for applicants to tell me why they’re applying, so what they know about the course/career (demonstrate knowledge and passion), why they think they’d be a good fit. What qualities/skills have they got which would suit this career/degree. How can they demonstrate this (so transferable skills from a part t8me job, etc). What have you been doing/reading about related to this course.

@TizerorFizz "I think there are too many unis, too many students go and too many don’t get value for money."

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But I don't think places should be reserved for the middle classes and the privately educated.

I'm curious if you make any allowances for students who may not have had any extra help with their PS's.

Yep. I went in 1990 and did an UCCA form.

I am a teacher who writes the references for my tutor group (form group) and also gives advice to them on PS and these are absolutely the key things that need to be focussed on anyway. The best universities aren’t really interested anyway in a PS as the actual results are the KPI. And the others don’t care if they can get the £££ in fees.