Personal Statements to be Scrapped

[Xenia]

Might be of interest - Ucas scraps personal statements for university admissions
"Instead of a 4000-character statement, from next year applicants will be asked to answer three questions on why they want to study their chosen course and how they are prepared for it."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cger11kjk1jo

I went to Uni in 91 and don't remember doing such a thing???

I just applied then either got provisional offers or rejected (looking at you, Surrey Uni. I'm still bitter...)

Isn’t it more vulnerable to AI as an approach?

I can’t see these changes being any advantage to anyone - bizarre decision. I wish personal statements could be scrapped.

Maybe, but it doesn’t negate the achievement, or it shouldn’t, in my opinion.
Are you suggesting that universities shouldn’t take into account anything a child has accomplished in their lives simply because they come from a supportive, reasonably comfortable background?
Because the same could be argued about academic achievement also.
Maybe, instead, more effort could be put into finding those extra curricular opportunities to disadvantaged children. Why always the lowest common denominator?
Anyway, my real point was that kids can still include all the things they did before in their personal statement. Just in a different order/format.

This year’s UCAS forms included a dedicated extenuating circs section to be completed by a teacher. We were able to go into quite a lot of detail about SEN issues, any disrupted teaching or attendance and other personal difficulties. Fortunately, this is still being taken very seriously.

Yea this has been in the pipeline for ages. Nice they have finally confirmed the form it will take, which frankly isn't too disimilar to the questions the old PS answered!

@Smartiepants79 "Are you suggesting that universities shouldn’t take into account anything a child has accomplished in their lives simply because they come from a supportive, reasonably comfortable background? "

Yes, I am. IF it is something that a child that didn't come from a supportive reasonably comfortable background could not possibly accomplish.

I knew AI would be the final nail in the personal
statement coffin. Next step might be finally to move to post results offers.

You did one. On the paper form. You may also have applied to ucca and pcas. The latter being for polys! I went 1993 and did one

How are you possibly going to judge that???
Either they’ve passed their piano exam or they haven’t?
Either they’ve made the county netball squabs or they haven’t?
Either they’ve got 3 A’s at A level or they haven’t?
You can’t judge or know that they wouldn’t have done those things if they’d been born into a different family?

@Smartiepants79 "How are you possibly going to judge that???
Either they’ve passed their piano exam or they haven’t?
Either they’ve made the county netball squabs or they haven’t?
Either they’ve got 3 A’s at A level or they haven’t?
You can’t judge or know that they wouldn’t have done those things if they’d been born into a different family?"
Apart from the A levels-frankly easily. Do you know how much it costs to get grade 8 piano for example?

Yes, my children play the piano! Sadly, no amount of money I spend on it is going to turn them into musical prodigies.
But, again, how do you judge that those achievements are not worthy? That all music, dance, sport is not worthy because someone might have had to spend money on it to get there?
Nobody should do these things because not everyone can? Or wants to.
Its just a spiralling race to the bottom.
Make these things better available to all children rather than completely negating their worth.

@Smartiepants79 "But, again, how do you judge that those achievements are not worthy? That all music, dance, sport is not worthy because someone might have had to spend money on it to get there? "

Of course they are "worthy". They are great, life enhancing, sometimes door-opening things to do. They just should not be part of the university admissions process.

I think they should. Dc who do more are often those who cope well with uni. Loads of schools offer clubs and choirs for singing or free drama for example. Sport doesn’t cost in school. You don’t have to pay for everything. You just want dc to participate. Those that do should be able to write about it and it does support study at uni. I am very much against the race to the bottom. Those who do more at school are fantastic dc and deserve to be able to say what they have achieved beyond the curriculum.

I donMr think making sure that kids who don't have to opportunities some others do get to university is a "race to the bottom" unless you have a very offensive view of underprivileged families. Which, to be fair, many people do.

It's not much difference. 3 paragraphs instead of 1 long page? But the content is the same. Other than giving a bit more structure, the amount of effort required is the same. Even the overall length is the same!

That isn’t helpful though as extenuating circumstances are best known by the applicant and he was able to set out how they had added to his application in the PS.Some students will have a gap and whoever is doing their reference may know very little re the circumstances.

No they’re just more priviledged. Grade 8 oboe absolutely shouldn’t give you an advantage in a non relevant degree.

Define do more.

For some kids just getting into school and sitting exams is doing 100 times more than others. For some kids getting Alevels at all involves far more resilience than a raft of other extra curricular. Universities have been saying how these shopping lists don’t add anything and they are often ignored. UCAS will be responding to advice.

I still think they have made extenuating circumstances harder. I don’t see how my son can weave his into what he wants to say in his application now. They have massively impacted his life in a way somebody he barely knows who will be writing his reference. They are personal
too.

I think (working in university outreach) that the new style statements will be very beneficial to disadvantaged students. A lot of the students I work with don’t receive much guidance from home or school so they can end up producing statements that really don’t benefit them at all, or where they’ve totally missed the mark on what the statement is supposed to be. This structure will help tackle that I think.

I appreciate a PPs point that for her son who included extenuating circumstances in his statement that this would be less beneficial, but I’m sure that it could still be woven in - and extenuating circumstances should primarily be in the reference anyway.

@Periwinkl3 I specifically omitted music exams. However they show huge commitment and dc have jiggled practice and academics. It demonstrates something about dc. Although I clearly said schools offer many things that are free. Everyone has a voice. Join a choir. Get involved in something! Annual drama production - even if it’s lighting, costume or scenery. Run a club for younger dc. Go and volunteer for something. Even have a job. All these things are worth something and show dc do more than school work. Do sport in school. It’s free.

Personslly I think unis should look at dc in the round. We have a music service here and free lessons are available for some. Heavily discounted for others. Lack of money is not an excuse to do nothing. There are loan instruments. We complain about better off dc taking up lessons but others could do a lot more that’s very useful, for free!

I can’t speak for all schools but where I work extenuating circumstances are written by form tutors and based on one to one conversations with the pupil as well as information held about them such as safeguarding, health issues, extra time in exams, bereavement etc. I’d be concerned if a school was unaware of pastoral issues significantly affecting a child’s education. There is also the ‘More about you’ section where information about health issues can be added by the individual. The university will then contact them if they need further information.

Kids handling shit at home, trauma, ND, illness, caring etc are coping with enough if studying for 3 Alevels too. Many won’t have the headspace or time to volunteer and there is no need. What they manage is just as worthy as joining a choir.

Some kids aren’t in school or have had a huge gap. Some will be mature students. Listing extenuating isn’t the same as explaining why it has impacted your education and the skills it has given you.

@TizerorFizz Tell us you have no idea how the other half lives without saying you have no idea how the other half lives....

Grade 8 oboe absolutely shouldn’t give you an advantage in a non relevant degree.

I remember doing a morning of interviews where four in a row applicants played the oboe. I wasn't really interested but was surprised that the oboe was so popular.